Who's the biggest embarassment for the LDS church today?

[_Daniel Peterson]

I read, from time to time, that Gadianton was once a serious thinker.

I wish I'd seen it.

[_Jason Bourne]

My thought is Glenn Beck. I listened to him go on and on today about his doom and gloom prophecies for the near future in the US (lately that seems to be all he talks about...some sort of anarchist, chaotic society where money won't be worth anything and everyone will have to fend for themselves). I think he's probably making the financial crisis worse with his words.

.

Go back 18 months and listen to Glenn Beck. He was talking about where we are at now over a year and a half ago. Personally I do not think we are in for the total doom he is talking about now. But a year ago when I thought Beck was a bit over the top on where we are headed I have to say damn, he was right on point about much of what he was saying. Him and Peter Schiff.

Beck is not an embarrassment at all to the LDS Church. My guess it that you think so more because of your social and political leanings than anything else.

[_Jason Bourne]

Do you really think "embarrassment" matters for the church? Think about it, Hobart, down a notch or two from the highest leaders -- who literally know nothing other than Mormonism -- are very successful businessmen, lawyers, and down a bit more, apologists. Whether it's a matter of money, law, or truth, the real challenge is in making it with a disadvantage. If you've already proven to yourself that you can do something, the next step is -- in the game -- can you do it blindfolded? Or, in other words, can you make the ridiculous seem true, can you make the guilty innocent, and so on. Those of importance in the church thrive on the next "embarrassment". It's the next challenge that can be pursued in a blind rage, where the tables can be turned, where the "weakness can become a strength". No one of importance in the church cares about Christ, at least whether he's "knocked down". In fact, wasn't it Bruce R. who virtually hated Christ because of the Christian "anti-Mormons", the Christians so devoted to him? It's not embarrassing to believe in Jesus. This is still a very Christian nation. No one is, to their eternal shame, giving the Mormons, especially the apologists, opposition for their "belief in Christ", because everyone knows "Christ" is down about 49 notches on their list, and pretty uncontroversial anyway.

What makes the heirarchy, and the apologists, very angry, the most angry, is that they can't pawn off the persecution they get for their ill-gotten gains and their pseudoscientific theories as persecution for Christ, because no one believes for one second Christ matters at all to them.

It really, really infuriates them that they've failed in this regard.

This is their biggest challenge.

This is about the Dumbest thing Gad had ever said.

McConkie hate Christ?

The man who wrote the hymn "I Believe in Christ" hate Jesus? The man who wrote "I belive in Christ, He is my King. With all my heart to Him I'll sing..,"

The man who gave one of the most powerful testimonies of him in his last GC talk shortly before he died?

Oh my. Gad really had lost his mind.

[_Gadianton]

Hi Jason,

You are correct, but that was after a long "repentance" process. When I was on my mission, I listened to some very, very old Brcue R. talks where he was essentially ridiculing Christians for their belief in Jesus as their savior and emphasizing worship of the Father to the point where you'd think Jesus was nothing. So I naturally wondered, what's up with this hypocrite? This is the guy who wrote lyrics to the song "I believe in Christ" and came just short of telling the whole world that he'd received the 2nd Comforter, like unto the Brother of Jared and the Nehor.

Years later I looked into it, and it turns out that the brethren became very angry with Bruce R. for his public mockery of Jesus Christ. As the church began to mature, it realized it needed to have something in common with Christianity if it were ever to rise above "weird cult" status, and Bruce R's pet peeves were becoming a huge political liability for the Church. So Bruce as called to repentance, and told to "gain a testimony" of Jesus Christ.

Certainly, had he not done as commanded, his career would have been stiffled greatly. Fortunately for him, he learned to toe the party line like no other, and became the most famous modern apostle of all time.

[_krose]

Warren Jeffs and his followers, hands down.

Most people do not differentiate between Fundamentalist Mormons and Manifesto Mormons, any more than they know the difference between the Mennonites and the Amish (or Japanese and Koreans, for that matter).

[_krose]

The man who wrote the hymn "I Believe in Christ" hate Jesus?

I'm just surprised that he knew there is another "e" in the word "believe." Listening to him, I always assumed that he spelled it "blieve."

[_Pokatator]

So many to choose from....but........

It all began with Joseph Smith and I believe that it still rests on him. If you believe the party line, the written legend then it is no embarrassment and he walks on water and the church is true, but if you don't believe the hype and go outside of the church's whitewashed history and view Joseph and the church from the outside looking in and with common sense and logic then Joseph remains the church's biggest embarrassment. Of course, in my ever so humble opinion.

Mashed potatoes anyone?

[_harmony]

Mashed potatoes anyone?

I love mashed potatoes. Love Love Love!

[_Mister Scratch]

I think that Gadianton makes a very important and astute point here. And of course Dr. Peterson and The Nehor are way off base. The fundamental "scandal" of Mormonism is not Christ; instead, the chief "scandal," as Terryl Givens rightly points out, is the Book of Mormon. This, if we are to follow the basic logic outlined by the TBMs on this thread, the BoM---and all its attendant theories, postulations, and problems--would have to be the "biggest embarrassment." But, the OP asks "who is the biggest embarrassment," so, once again, based on the comments of the TBMs, I think the answer would have to be: Joseph Smith.

[_Nightingale]

Mr. Scratch:
"...the OP asks "who is the biggest embarrassment," so, once again, based on the comments of the TBMs, I think the answer would have to be: Joseph Smith."

You think that Joseph Smith is the biggest embarrassment to Mormonism? Are you sure you're active LDS? (Or am I misunderstanding your point?)