If I did It: Chapter 2 - The Plan

[_Daniel Peterson]

They're not going to answer. They basically have two options: to lie, or to admit that they'd throw him under the bus. We already have multiple examples of what the apologists do to critics: Mike Quinn, Simon Southerton, Grant Palmer. Etc.

"Guilty!" declares the notably objective, invariably fair-minded, ever-charitable Scratch.

I don't know about that, but you didn't have much of a problem tossing this individual under the bus:

Not quite reporting a colleague to the supposed "BYU faculty gestapo" in order to get him fired, though, is it?

I'm impressed with the files you appear to keep on me. Practically everything I've ever said or done is at your fingertips for instant citation and spin. It must be deeply gratifying to have a single, clear mission for your life. Personally, I find myself drawn in many directions, too many, by multiple interests -- in Islam, Mormonism, philosophy, ancient history, politics, etc., etc.

Kevin Graham is another former apologist you no longer seem capable of getting along with.

I've chosen not to engage him publicly. Things always got out of hand. I don't badmouth him, fight with him, or interact with him on message boards (though we've had a few pleasant and entirely civil exchanges via private e-mail of late) -- and I've certainly never reported him to some sort of mythical "gestapo" in order to get him fired.

You're straining things quite a bit.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

Let's say, for argument's sake, that Gad is a professor at BYU, any of the BYUs. Let's say he presents at the Claremont conference under his real name and on the subject he talked about here... and meets you. Most of the people at the conference wouldn't know him as Gadianton from MDB, just you and Daniel and maybe California Kid.

For the sake of argument I'll answer, but this hypothetical seems as likely to me as Gad being a NASA engineer or the President of the United States. If Gad is a professor at BYU I'll eat my hat.

But just in case:

So... what would you do, if you thought the man you met was Gadianton? Would you report him to the BYU faculty gestapo, based on his words here?

I don't know of any gestapo, and I wouldn't "report" him even if I did know about one. Moreover, I was happy to take part in the SMPT conference despite anything there I might have disagreed with.

Would you wait for Daniel to out him?

Since I'm unfamiliar with whatever process you guys think is in place to root people out of BYU I don't know what Dan would or could do. Considering that Gad is merely playing a role here as an anonymous character I don't know that we could even hold him to the views he has expressed here anyway.

Could he trust you to keep his on-board anonymity intact? What is your track record with that sort of thing?

My track record is actually good in this regard. If I have been asked to keep various identities secret and so far have done very well. Sometimes even in regards to people who don't even know that I know who they are, and thus have not asked me to keep things secret.

[_Scratchopolis]

My track record is actually good in this regard. If I have been asked to keep various identities secret and so far have done very well. Sometimes even in regards to people who don't even know that I know who they are, and thus have not asked me to keep things secret.

Please don't out me to my Illuminati masters.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Please don't out me to my Illuminati masters.

It's already done.

You have seven minutes and thirty-seven seconds left to live.

No. Wait. Make that six minutes and fifty- . . . six seconds.

[_Gadianton]

Liz,

I'm responding to your question here, because it is about chapter 2 of my book.

You inquired about the "many false statements".

We can start with this statement, some of this is already answered in this chapter, but

It was pretty elaborate satire, though.....it lasted for months....actually close to a year. For those of us who really aren't up on all of these seminars and how they work, we really didn't "get the joke".

1. CFR on "elaborate satire". If I did it, name one aspect of the "ruse" that was elaborate. See chapter 4 for more details.
2. It lasted close to a year? I announced my presentation on Jan. 11, 2009.

[_Yoda]

1. CFR on "elaborate satire". If I did it, name one aspect of the "ruse" that was elaborate. See chapter 4 for more details.
2. It lasted close to a year? I announced my presentation on Jan. 11, 2009.

1. I suppose that the term, elaborate, is subjective. I find the fact that someone would create a thread and go into detail about presenting at a conference, and having that lack of presentation prove some type of point rather elaborate. I find this whole book that you are doing now rather elaborate, with certainly a flair for the dramatic. That isn't meant as a put-down, just an observation on my part. If you disagree, that's fine.

2. OK, you announced your presentation in January. It's the end of May, almost June. The year is close to being half over.

[_Gadianton]

I find the fact that someone would create a thread and go into detail about presenting at a conference

more false statement?

- I didn't create a thread to announce my presenting at a conference (did you click the link in this thread?)

- I didn't go into detail about presenting at the conference at any time. Wasn't this part of the problem? If I went into detail, then why did you have so many questions?

[_Yoda]

I find the fact that someone would create a thread and go into detail about presenting at a conference

more false statement?

- I didn't create a thread to announce my presenting at a conference (did you click the link in this thread?)

- I didn't go into detail about presenting at the conference at any time. Wasn't this part of the problem? If I went into detail, then why did you have so many questions?

You know what, Gad? Kiss my ass.

You're picking apart my words, and acting like I'm on some vendetta against you when nothing could be further from the truth. I attempted to apologize to you, and explain myself, and now you're just being a jackass and enjoying trying to make me look stupid.

Fine---you didn't create a thread--you initiated an idea about presenting based on a thread DCP created.

The detail I was referring to was engaging in the conversation about the conference itself....what it was, where it was being held, etc. Not all of us are up on what SMPT is.

Again---Excuse me for being naive--for just trying to be supportive of something that I thought was seriously important to you because you had always given me the impression of being a decent, educated person.

I really don't need this crap.

[_Gadianton]

No, I really don't think you have a vendetta against me.

But I don't think you read what I write, either. I know it can be a chore, but I can't be accountable for what people might think of me if they read selectively and don't get the whole picture.

and now you're just being a jackass and enjoying trying to make me look stupid.

another false statement. Look, according to you, I've engaged in "elaborate satire" vs. say, "boneheaded satire" as I would interpret it, if I did it. If you are right, then I'm screwed. My goose is cooked. If I've engaged in deceptive, elaborate satire, then I've lost the case. So excuse me if I expect you to actually provide evidence for the point that you're trying to make that would send me down the river if it were true!

[_Yoda]

I wasn't trying to "sell you down the river". Believe it or not, my description of your satire as elaborate was actually a compliment. If you prefer to refer to it as boneheaded satire, that's fine with me.