The topic of Worth

[_Jason Bourne]

Let's talk about the character of Jesus' bride:

Referring to the astronomic maintenance costs of properties that sport basketball courts:

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and thieves break through and steal;
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

(Book of Mormon | 3 Nephi 13:19 - 21)

Where is the Mormon church's heart?

For what purpose ought a True Follower of Christ give?
For what purpose ought Christ's church alocate it's riches?

18 But before ye seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God.
19 And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to do good—to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted.
(Book of Mormon | Jacob 2:16 - 20)

Are buildings and vast property holdings necessary to feed and clothe, liberate the captive, administer relief?

Is a building even necessary?
What if Christ's church didn't have a building?

5 ..they have cast us out of our synagogues .. and we have no place to worship our God; and behold, what shall we do?
9 Behold thy brother hath said, What shall we do?—for we are cast out of our synagogues, that we cannot worship our God.
10 Behold I say unto you, do ye suppose that ye cannot worship God save it be in your synagogues only?
11 And moreover, I would ask, do ye suppose that ye must not worship God only once in a week?

(Book of Mormon | Alma 32:5 - 11)

Is it about Christ or is it about something else - mingled with scripture?
So who is it that really guides this church?

Of course Inc ignore fast offerings which I think can be conservatively estimated to by about $500 million or so a year. Yes it can be that much. Do the math. Mutliply 27,000 wards or so by about $20,000-$50,000 a year. Heck just use $10,000 per ward and you still get a large number.

Od course that would not serve Inc's irrational attempts to find absolutely nothing good in the LDS Church at all.

Oh and let's not forget the Church's humanitarian program and it's perpetual education fund.

[_Inconceivable]

Oh and let's not forget the Church's humanitarian program and it's perpetual education fund.

I didn't forget the Humanitarian program. It seems fine - just not living up to it's potential.

My point is that disciples don't need a building to spread and maintain Jesus' simple message. Many Mormons are under the delusion that the CK comes by way of going to church - Even Alma the prophet disagreed with this fiction. He said it was unecessary.

Joseph Smith is the one that spoke of the Godhead appearing standing on a breastwork of pure gold - as if they needed to prove they are deity by pulling up in a pimped out Hummer.

You can feed a starving child for .17 a day.

the Mormon church has the potential of saving hundreds of thousands of additional lives each year. And for what?

If you were Jesus, would another chapel be worth the lives of a thousand of your children?

Why is His answer yes? It is yes, isn't it?

Why? because they are less human? What color are they? Maybe they're just not white enough?

A little human suffering and death is tolerable and justifiable, right?

How would you run it Jason, if it was within your power to save even one additional life?

Me too.

Then why is it not done?

[_Jason Bourne]

I didn't forget the Humanitarian program. It seems fine - just not living up to it's potential.

Really? Why. What do you know about it? Have you visited the center in SLC and witnessed what they do there? Have you been involved in ward projects that prepare various kits for many purposes that are sent abroad?

And what of the aid that the LDS Church gives constantly when natural disaster strikes? Often they are the earliest on the scene.

My point is that disciples don't need a building to spread and maintain Jesus' simple message. Many Mormons are under the delusion that the CK comes by way of going to church - Even Alma the prophet disagreed with this fiction. He said it was unecessary.

Your point is foolish and naïve. Yes naïve. We live in a modern world. The places of worship are there to serve the needs of those who desire to worship and gather. Like it or not one of the main functions of any church is to provide worship opportunities. Given the size of many congregations it would be tough the meet in members homes and is not near as effective. And the LDS Church really excels at using its facitlies to the max. Where population allows for it they house up to three and sometimes four congregations in a building.

Joseph Smith is the one that spoke of the Godhead appearing standing on a breastwork of pure gold - as if they needed to prove they are deity by pulling up in a pimped out Hummer.

Go read your Bible man. It was a vision and more likely than not figurative language. Visions in the Bible use similar language.

You can feed a starving child for .17 a day.

And I imagine the LDS Church feeds many. How many are you personally feeding?

the Mormon church has the potential of saving hundreds of thousands of additional lives each year. And for what?

You seem to think that they do one at the expense of the other. I disagree.

If you were Jesus, would another chapel be worth the lives of a thousand of your children?

The Church can build buildings and it can feed the poor. Fast offerings and the welfare program of the Church is stellar in feeding the poor. The perpetual education fund assist many thousands in learning to feed themselves.

How much did you give last month to feed the poor?

[_The Nehor]

This "YOU COULD BE PREVENTING STARVATION!" line is ridiculous. It costs $.17 a day to feed a child...true if you can get the aid there through the bureaucracy, through the government not interested in starving children, and past the local warlord. If all it would take to end world hunger was a couple million dollars the Church (and many others) would have done it years ago.

What we need are stabilized governments, infrastructure, and the end of civil strife in those nations not feeding their children. Unless you want the Church to move in with a private army I don't see how we can solve the problem.

[_quaker]

You conveniently forget that Church buildings are utilized for activities of all sorts. You conveniently ignore that the cultural halls provide a place for activities for children, teenagers, and people of all ages.

If you don't believe that the building serves as more than just a real estate holding that is alright. I already have a low opinion of your thoughts so there's nothing to lose on your part.

[_Mercury]

You conveniently forget that Church buildings are utilized for activities of all sorts. You conveniently ignore that the cultural halls provide a place for activities for children, teenagers, and people of all ages.

If you don't believe that the building serves as more than just a real estate holding that is all right. I already have a low opinion of your thoughts so there's nothing to lose on your part.

Here is the point: people paid for the buildings that will in the fuuture be converted to other forms of wealth once they become lucrative land holdings. The members of the area will pay for another chapel and the previous money used for the building will go to build exclusive hunting lodges for LDS elite, stock purchases, etc.

Of course, all this is speculative, especially the bull that says the financial dealings of Mormon Inc are benign.

[_Inconceivable]

We live in a modern world. The places of worship are there to serve the needs of those who desire to worship and gather.

You seem to think that they do one at the expense of the other. I disagree.

Jason,

What does modern world mean? Does it mean that preventable death is justifiable? I suppose so.

Consider this. Send a few full time missionaries to Haiti, tell them to testify to the starving that they have a message of Christ's love. The only difference is that instead of baptising them in water they can bury them in dirt.

Of course I am well aware of every welfare program you listed (and then some).

Also, why don't you list an actual need that is fulfilled in a church building that could not otherwise be accomplished anywhere else.

[_Kevin Graham]

Well I happen to know that in Spain, the church didn't own the buildings. They woudl lease space at the ground floors of what appeared to be giant apartment complexes. The only place it actually owns, I think, is the temple in Madrid. SOme countries won't let the Church own land or property. And I know that in eastern Europe as well as Russia, the Church is constantly renting and closing down branch locations.

I also served my mission in a very rich area in Mission Viejo California and noticed how much nicer the Stake Center was. You wouldn't find a place like that in Mexico or Brasil. My companion rationalized that it made sense since the members there paid more tithes.

I also remember an elderly couple serving a mission in Madrid and the woman was something of an aristocrat. She came from a really rich lifestyle and she insisted the Mission President pay for all sorts of luxury items that she really didn't need. He went ahead and did it, which tells me he had the money at his disposal to do with whatever he wanted.

[_Mercury]

I also remember an elderly couple serving a mission in Madrid and the woman was something of an aristocrat. She came from a really rich lifestyle and she insisted the Mission President pay for all sorts of luxury items that she really didn't need. He went ahead and did it, which tells me he had the money at his disposal to do with whatever he wanted.

She must have had GA connections.

[_Jason Bourne]

Jason,

What does modern world mean? Does it mean that preventable death is justifiable? I suppose so.

Consider this. Send a few full time missionaries to Haiti, tell them to testify to the starving that they have a message of Christ's love. The only difference is that instead of baptising them in water they can bury them in dirt.

Of course I am well aware of every welfare program you listed (and then some).

Also, why don't you list an actual need that is fulfilled in a church building that could not otherwise be accomplished anywhere else.

I think your criticism here is totally irrational.


You still did not tell me how much you give to feed the poor.