Childlike v. Childish

[_Scottie]

I never took it like that.

I took it more to mean that children have perfect faith. They believe without needing to see evidence, and we should all strive to be more like that. Isn't there another story in the Bible about someone asking Jesus to heal someone, and Jesus praises her because she has such great faith without really having any reason to have such great faith?

Of course, outside of religion, this virtue is considered a flaw that will get you suckered into 1000 different scams.

PS. Did the teacher write up that children are highly susceptible to threats of withholding goods and/or punishments (eg. be good or Santa won't bring you any presents!), which corrosponds quite nicely with Christian religions (eg. be good or you'll burn in hell fire)?

[_madeleine]

I'd think a 7 year old who doesn't want do something could be the best definition of 'stiff necked'!

Outside of that, Faith is first a gift of the Holy Spirit, and second, our response to that gift. It is a relationship based on love. A healthy relationship between a child and a parent is authentic, in the sense that, the child is cared for by loving parents, and the child doesn't question why or how. The relationship just is. This is the kind of relationship Jesus calls us to, authentic, without the layers of obstruction and baggage that adults tend to lay across relationships. He sees us exactly as who we are, and still loves us, unconditionally. This is what we respond to, and what is called "faith".

Peace.

[_consiglieri]

PS. Did the teacher write up that children are highly susceptible to threats of withholding goods and/or punishments (eg. be good or Santa won't bring you any presents!), which corrosponds quite nicely with Christian religions (eg. be good or you'll burn in hell fire)?

The idea of unquestioning faith was brought up as a positive childlike attribute, which made me think immediately not only of Santa Claus and the Tooth-Fairy, but also the high proportion of ponzi schemes that seem to flouish along the Mormon corridor.

Bit my tongue on those, though.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

Outside of that, Faith is first a gift of the Holy Spirit, and second, our response to that gift. It is a relationship based on love. A healthy relationship between a child and a parent is authentic, in the sense that, the child is cared for by loving parents, and the child doesn't question why or how. The relationship just is. This is the kind of relationship Jesus calls us to, authentic, without the layers of obstruction and baggage that adults tend to lay across relationships. He sees us exactly as who we are, and still loves us, unconditionally. This is what we respond to, and what is called "faith".

I like your comments, madeleine!

Any chance you could substitute once in a while as our high priest group teacher?

It was interesting that at the end of the lesson, the teacher did segue into a discussion of the "relationship" aspect, with us as children of our Heavenly Father, and how that had primary importance.

I asked the teacher later after class if I understood him correctly--"Were you really teaching that the most important thing that pertains to our salvation is not what we believe or what we do, but our relationship with God?"

He smiled and allowed as to how it sure sounded that way.


All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_madeleine]

Well consiglieri, as a Christian I believe our relationship is in, with and through Jesus Christ. Which points to the teaching of "believe and be baptized". There is something, or rather Someone, to be believed.

This relationship begins with Jesus Christ who suffered and died for us (which means more in particular for "I"). In dying to ourselves, we are raised in Him.

Of course, I believe completely that a relationship with God is not only possible, but desirable, outside of a Christian baptism. This relationship is perfected in and through Jesus Christ.

Peace.

[_Jersey Girl]

consig

He seemed a bit suprised (thank heaven he is/was a friend) and asked what I meant. I said children are the most selfish beings around; they want what they want when they want it and, if they don't get it, they cry until they do. Only a little older and they couldn't care less about a certain toy until some other kid starts to play with it, and then they pitch a fit.

I just have to say something about this, consig. I have worked with literally thousands of young children over the past 25+ years so I speak with experience here.

If you are referring to typical 18 month-21/2 year old behavior, I would say yes, your description is pretty much right on the money. From age 3+ though, I have witnessed the development of perspective taking in young children that goes hand-in-hand with the development of empathy, who are often characterized as "egocentric".

When a child has been hurt in my classroom, I have seen 3/4 year old's go fetch their comfort toy and bring it to them with a hug. I have seen 3/4 year old's sit patiently and rub the back of a tired or sad child. I have seen 3/4 year old's sit by to support a child when I was doing a diabetes stick test. I have seen children remind me it is snack time for the diabetic child or that another child needs their inhaler. The children in my classroom are well aware of the needs of others and act on them, because if you don't mind my saying so, I have taught them well by guiding them, modeling for them, mentoring and teaching them awareness of others.

When I slammed my finger in a steel door going out to playground, a 3 year old followed me back in while I walked to the freezer to get an ice pack. This was the only time in 25+ years I've ever cried openly on account of an injury in my classroom. When I sat back down with the ice pack, she went to one of the many tissue boxes in the classroom, brought me a tissue and said, "Let me wipe you tears". I will never forget that act of kindness on her part.

When I refer to guidance, modeling, mentoring and teaching, this is exactly what parents should be doing for their young children. There is no reason (absent special need, delayed development, mental illness) for children to be having enormous behavioral events over toys or when they cannot get their own way.

This is the result of parents who spend more time investigating how their new computer works than investing an effort in learning about the development of their own child.

Parents say "these kids don't come with owner's manuals". YES, they do.

And children are quite capable of learning if only adults would take the time to teach them.

Stepping down off my child advocate soapbox...

Jersey Girl
:-)

p.s. In the case of one toy for sharing....always have two or the reasonable equivalent. It's as simple as that for the young child who has been in this world just a very short time (most of which they cannot remember) and who is just beginning to learn about pro-social behaviors.

[_madeleine]

This is why I don't go for the "faith without evidence" position regarding this scripture. It suggests an inability on the part of children to judge. Children have a keene sense, in my experience, to judge what is going on around them. Empathy being authentic (not feigned) as well as a perception and response for injustice.

Honestly, I can't view "faith without evidence" as a human response, at all.

[_dogmatic]

This is why I don't go for the "faith without evidence" position regarding this scripture. It suggests an inability on the part of children to judge. Children have a keene sense, in my experience, to judge what is going on around them. Empathy being authentic (not feigned) as well as a perception and response for injustice.

My only experience with children, is my own, and they both started asking really hard questions about God from 3-4 on. They wanted to understand and know that this "God" was not like the cartoons on TV or santa clause.. wanted to know if he was real.

[_madeleine]

This is why I don't go for the "faith without evidence" position regarding this scripture. It suggests an inability on the part of children to judge. Children have a keene sense, in my experience, to judge what is going on around them. Empathy being authentic (not feigned) as well as a perception and response for injustice.

My only experience with children, is my own, and they both started asking really hard questions about God from 3-4 on. They wanted to understand and know that this "God" was not like the cartoons on TV or santa clause.. wanted to know if he was real.

Is that your daughter in your avatar? She's a cutie.

[_consiglieri]

I just have to say something about this, consig. I have worked with literally thousands of young children over the past 25+ years so I speak with experience here.

Thank you so much for sharing those wonderful stories, Jersey Girl.

Little children can be absolutely wonderful, and you are right that there is much we can learn from them. I hope I didn't come across as a total child-hater.

It is often said (with some truth, I think) that children are keenly perceptive of others, and there is no greater compliment (or greater treasure) than to be given the love of a small child.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri