RfM--why it's a useless site. (Simon will love this!)

[_beastie]

RfM a.k.a. Ranting Fanatical Maniacs, a.k.a. Recovery From Mormonism is a well known site of people venting their frustrations with the church. I can understand some amount of frustration--I have some of my own. However, I believe that RfM itself is a worthless site.

Worthless? Isn't catharsis--venting--a good thing? Actually it isn't. While venting feels good, it actually tends to make one more disposed to violence instead of less so. All it does is perpetuate the cycle of anger. You Are Not So Smart (I read "You" as "We"). See here.

So there you have it folks. Simon is right after all. Now quit complaining about the church. ;)

Likewise, any church meeting, talk, or sermon that emphasizes The One True Church is worthless as well.

[_asbestosman]

I needed it when I was in my venting stage,

But venting isn't useful according to article in OP.

It's fun though.

Likewise, any church meeting, talk, or sermon that emphasizes The One True Church is worthless as well.

Perhaps so, but, for a different reason. There it's not the futility of catharsis, but rather the futility of using it for discerning truth. It is, however, a very good way to strengthen one's loyalty to the in-group.

[_beastie]

Perhaps so, but, for a different reason. There it's not the futility of catharsis, but rather the futility of using it for discerning truth. It is, however, a very good way to strengthen one's loyalty to the in-group.

This is the point I was making. Although I didn't read the entire site you linked, I did read a great deal which reminded me of previous things I had read. To me, the main lesson is that human beings are tribal animals whose brains are wired to create intense bias in favor of the tribe. Mormonism is tribalism on steroids. It's a perfect example of "us versus them".

[_Blixa]

Well, I dunno, asbestosman. While I don't frequent RfM anymore, I feel I owe it a great deal. If it hadn't been for RfM, I wouldn't have had one of the most beautiful friendships of my life. Kimberly Ann and others have heard this story before. And KA was even on hand to witness the glorious reconnection:

--------

I got to RfM by sheer internet accident. I was researching the work of a particular artist and noticed him listed on one of those sad websites which catalog every person with even the most tangential relation to Mormonism. They're like a pop cultural Mormon Scholars Testify: "look at all the cool people who are Mormons!" Except many of those listed in no way self-identify as LDS and simply have some Mormon relative. The person I was looking for was listed as an "ethnic Mormon." It was the first time I'd seen that phrase; at the time I had no contact with Mormonism and probably hadn't given it much of a thought in the last 30 years.

I googled the term, ended up on RfM and instantly recognized a friend from college I'd lost touch with. I started posting, mostly to talk to her and reminisce about the old days. Although I used a screen name, I did talk about a lot of real life things and on the strength of that got what has to be the most unbelievable email of my life.

Here's the background: My mom was extremely ultra protective. So much so that I was left with a babysitter only once in my life. Because it was such a singular experience I've always remembered it, even though I was only around 4 years old I didn't remember much except that the babysitter had a set of dominoes. I knew how to play the game, but she showed me how to set them on end in a snakey line and knock them over! I'd never seen that before and was delighted.

So, I get this email titled: "I may be your exmo babysitter" from a woman on RfM. She said she recognized a few identifying features from my posts and was pretty sure she'd babysat me. I was astounded! I'd only had one babysitter ever! What are the odds we'd run across each other in cyberspace nearly 40 years later?

I asked her if the word "dominoes" meant anything to her and she answered that she always carried them and a set of checkers in her "babysitting kit." That clinched it.

So we started corresponding. I've come to love and respect her---she is an amazingly strong and courageous person (not least of all because of her experiences in Mormon Utah: she was exed for talking a stand on the "black priesthood" issue), and I now count her among my best and closest friends.

I visited Utah for an exmo conference a few years ago primarily to connect up with my babysitter who was also in Utah at that time. Thus, KimberlyAnn was an accidental witness to our reunion; although we'd only ever seen each other once forty years earlier, it was very much like a family reunion, the same emotion, the same tears, the same connection.

So yeah, RfM's a big free for all with all kinds of nutty, cliquey hooha ever swirling around. But, JUST LIKE THIS PLACE, you can manage to find the honey in the lion...

[_Kishkumen]

The only folks who come close to being as angry as the RfM bunch are LDS apologists. So much anger.

[_asbestosman]

It's a cool story Blixa. What I'm getting from it through my biased views is that while the main draw of RfM--ranting--isn't particularly helpful, the side-effect of this is useful: community. In that sense, perhaps catharsis is like junk food. It's bad for you, but it tastes good. Since most people like eating junk food, it can be a good way to attract them and from there build something that is useful.

[_Kishkumen]

I am waiting for the punchline here. What is so awful about RfM? People vent and commiserate, find a little sense of community? What is the measurable harm that it is doing? I hear about how bad it is, but I see equally repugnant garbage from certain LDS apologists all of the time. Why don't we shut them down? Who knows but that these apologists are even more harmful than RfM?

[_Blixa]

It's a cool story Blixa. What I'm getting from it through my biased views is that while the main draw of RfM--ranting--isn't particularly helpful, the side-effect of this is useful: community. In that sense, perhaps catharsis is like junk food. It's bad for you, but it tastes good. Since most people like eating junk food, it can be a good way to attract them and from there build something that is useful.

Or you could read it as a gloss on the Theses on Feuerbach; to not rest content with mere description but take seriously that most creative of challenges---to change it!

Of course you have to pick your dialectical battles...

[_Simon Belmont]

I am waiting for the punchline here. What is so awful about RfM?

• It drives people away from the truth.
• Some of the members insult and say the most awful stuff about certain elderly men who are just trying to do good in the world and live their religion. One RfM member even insults his own grandfather. I'm sorry, but that's messed up.

I hear about how bad it is, but I see equally repugnant garbage from certain LDS apologists all of the time. Why don't we shut them down? Who knows but that these apologists are even more harmful than RfM?

Apologetics is a reaction to critics. If you take away one side of the equation, the other goes away, too. Since critics started it, I vote they step down and make the world a better place.

Also, I don't understand the Benson/Vogel fued -- I thought they were on the same "side" (i.e. both critics). Could someone explain this to me?

[_Themis]

It drives people away from the truth.

Incorrect Again.

Some of the members insult and say the most awful stuff about certain elderly men who are just trying to do good in the world and live their religion. One RfM member even insults his own grandfather. I'm sorry, but that's messed up.

They could be nicer, but I have seen this behavior from many apologists.

Apologetics is a reaction to critics.

Actually you won't understand or believe this due to your bias, but many critics are created by apologetics.

If you take away one side of the equation, the other goes away, too.

True, since the church had to make false claims for there to be people to disagree. What a crime. :)

Since critics started it, I vote they step down and make the world a better place.

The church first had to make false claims, and even JFS says people should expose the church's claims if they find them to be wrong. It's people disagreeing with that they think is incorrect or wrong that makes the world a better place. You should try helping out

Also, I don't understand the Benson/Vogel fued -- I thought they were on the same "side" (i.e. both critics). Could someone explain this to me?

Easy. There are not really two camps here. Lots of people who see things differently. This is true for TBM or non-believing members and former members.