AFTER ALL we can do -Comprehensive List of Mormon Rules 613

[_Jason Bourne]

I think the "after all we can do" thing is a pernicious teaching. When can someone be truly confident that they have done all that they can do? What if a person does a lot, but knows in their heart of hearts that there were things they probably could have done, which they didn't do? Then they're screwed?

The word all allows for no quibbling. The scripture doesn't say "after doing a lot", or "after most of what we could in theory do, minus things we didn't get done due to weakness or mistakes". It says "after all we can do." Mormons set themselves up for failure when they read and follow this scripture. I wonder how much depression Mormons have felt who were truly trying to live up to the gospel and church message, but knew that they weren't really measuring up to the 100% "all they can do" standard.

Taken with other passages about grace, justification and sanctification it is not pernicious. As noted Mormonism does not teach eternal security. It teaches that the the grace of Christ that allows us to be justified before God takes place when we have faith in Christ, repent, are baptized and then receive the Holy Ghost. This puts a person into the saving covenant relationship with Jesus Christ. They are now justified and are heir of the celestial kingdom so long as they remain in the saving covenant relationship with Christ. This then brings in the idea of enduring to the end, or abiding in Christ which is the term I prefer.


Abiding in Christ is the process of sanctification and that keeps one in their covenant relationship with Christ. This is the process of becoming perfect, the all we can do in the verse in question. But this process can take a long time even after this life. So long as one stays in the saving relationship their process of sanctification is going to be different from someone else. This process is full of ups and downs, sins and mistakes and so on. But as long as one does not abandon their relationship with Christ they are still perfected and justified. I think this is an accurate teaching of what this verse really means when taken with other passages on the topic.

[_Abaddon]

I think the "after all we can do" thing is a pernicious teaching. When can someone be truly confident that they have done all that they can do? What if a person does a lot, but knows in their heart of hearts that there were things they probably could have done, which they didn't do? Then they're screwed?

The word all allows for no quibbling. The scripture doesn't say "after doing a lot", or "after most of what we could in theory do, minus things we didn't get done due to weakness or mistakes". It says "after all we can do." Mormons set themselves up for failure when they read and follow this scripture. I wonder how much depression Mormons have felt who were truly trying to live up to the gospel and church message, but knew that they weren't really measuring up to the 100% "all they can do" standard.

I choose to look at "after all we can do" like so:

ALL we can do is

1) Get baptized
2) Receive Holy Ghost
3) Receive Priesthood (for males)
4) Receive Endowment
6) Eternal Marriage for those that choose it
7) Repent

That is ALL we can do.

[_Rambo]

Well there are the laws of the country.

The only thing I have to do is eat, go to the restroom, and stay warm enough to not die in the winter.

What else were you thinking?

Well, even you, as a self-proclaimed apostate <grin>, aren't going to go out a kill someone because he/she cut you off on the road, I'm sure. You probably still love your mom even though you disrespect her religious beliefs, I'm sure too. There's something there, Rambo. Think it through.

I do my love my mom and she loves me. She doesn't respect what my views are either and thinks heaven forbid I'm of the world.

Really the only thing I need to do is eat, sleep, and have shelter. There is nothing else I need to do. The other things are just optional.

I already included the laws of the country Stem.

[_afterallwecando]

The 3rd Article of faith confirms this website's interpretation of 2 Nephi 25:23

all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel

Also Prophet Benson explained what "All We Can Do" is in excruciating detail:

"After All We Can Do"

"What is meant by 'after all we can do'? 'After all we can do' includes extending our best effort. 'After all we can do' includes living His commandments. 'After all we can do' includes loving our fellowmen and praying for those who regard us as their adversary. 'After all we can do' means clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick and giving 'succor [to] those who stand in need of [our] succor' (Mosiah 4:15)-remembering that what we do unto one of the least of God's children, we do unto Him (see Matthew 25:34-40; D&C 42:38). 'After all we can do' means leading chaste, clean, pure lives, being scrupulously honest in all our dealings and treating others the way we would want to be treated."

-Bart
compiler of http://www.afterallwecando.com

[_Yoda]

Seems to have forget being good with money (parable of the unjust steward).

Many of these on the list are conditioned on our spiritual state or other circumstances and so not applicable. Many are just common sense things that most everyone strives to keep but just happen to be listed. Some are not true or not presented correctly. etc.

But above all, the context under which this list is made ignores the fact that we don't go around worrying about every little sin or misdeed because we know that basic good living and good deeds cover a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8 for example.

In case anyone is wondering, this is the content of the verse BC is referring to, but was too lazy to post:

8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

That being said, I do like BC's point with this scripture. ;-)

[_Simon Belmont]

-Bart
compiler of http://www.afterallwecando.com

Bart, you put a lot of effort into hating someone else's faith. Good job on that, I guess.

[_Sethbag]

Taken with other passages about grace, justification and sanctification it is not pernicious.

When I was taught about the repentance "process", it included the caveat that if one goes back and commits that sin again after having previously repented of it, all of the guilt from the previous commission of that sin returns upon one's head - in full.

So yes, in combination with this teaching, the "all we can do" teaching is pernicious. I'm glad you've come to your own conclusions, and have developed a way of thinking about these scriptures that avoids the guilt and the depression. All I'm saying is that for plenty of LDS, they take these scriptures literally, and feel like crap, knowing that they don't really measure up.

I had periods where I felt this way too. Luckily, I recall a GA talk once that sort of set my mind at ease, when he explained that in his view, if one is attempting to do what's right, one can be sure that one will eventually be saved in the Celestial Kingdom. That helped me see a way out of the harsh "after all we can do" condition prescribed in scripture.

As noted Mormonism does not teach eternal security. It teaches that the the grace of Christ that allows us to be justified before God takes place when we have faith in Christ, repent, are baptized and then receive the Holy Ghost.

That's quite the progressive, dare I even say "born again" view of it. The view I recall learning growing up in the church was that the grace of Christ allows us to be justified before God when we do a whole list of things the church wants us to do, and not do a whole list of things the church wants us not to do. It was about obeying, paying, going to church, not touching my little willy, going on a mission, not saying certain four-letter words, not drinking certain beverages, not watching certain movies, not doing certain things on Sunday, and so forth.

[_Nightlion]

This is a massive list:
http://www.afterallwecando.com

What is required for Mormons to receive saving grace?
The Book of Mormon makes it clear that Mormons only receive grace after they do all they can do.
In the Book of 2 Nephi 25:23 it says:
"... it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do."

402 Mormon Rules, Laws, Commandments, Regulations, or strongly worded suggestions so far documented.

I hope you enjoy the list, please provide feedback if you have items to add let me know
bart@afterallwecando.com

I do not even have to look at your stupid list.

It is all we can do to REPENT sufficiently to have the Lord remove our stain. That means to bring a broken heart and contrite spirit in utter meekness to take upon us the name of Christ with full purpose of heart, taking no thought for our lives while we strive with him that he might heal us.

'course, Mormons don't do that either. Gentiles! What can ya do with Gentiles?
But then you, whomever, do not know a single soul on the planet who has done this either.
I bet. In fact I bet you are clueless about what is the token evidence of received grace. Tell us what warrants our salvation. What discrimination do you have to know who is in grace and who is not? You got none. I hope you are EV. I love to convince EVs that they fail the test of Christianity. So do Mormons. So does the whole world that will burn as an oven.

[_afterallwecando]

I do not even have to look at your stupid list.

I agree, the list is crazy. Then why does the church have so many rules. I would argue as many rules as the Pharisees from Jesus' time?

Bart, you put a lot of effort into hating someone else's faith. Good job on that, I guess.

I haven't done anything but compile a list. Nothing but the facts. If there are any errors in fact on the list, please let me know and I will remove or correct them immediately. No hate here, I love Mormons. Do Mormon missionaries hate the people that they teach?

[_Nightlion]

After All, care to touch the rest of my post?