Mormon Afterlife > Christian Afterlife

[_keithb]

Yes, these are very fair points. However, it still beats out the complete arbitrary and unfair everlasting torture that your version of God has in store for most of his creations.

IMHO: Yes, it beats the traditional Christian view. No, it's still not a happy existence for most people.

[_stemelbow]

Hey stem,

Aren't all LDS views "light-years above the traditional Christian views"?

Peace,
Ceeboo

??? What are you getting at? I don't think that necessarily.

[_stemelbow]

IMHO: Yes, it beats the traditional Christian view. No, it's still not a happy existence for most people.

Why are you asking whether it'll happy to those who look forward to salvation or not? I think that's the wrong question. you simply don't know what will make "most people" happy in eternity. And we certainly don't know that exalted women will be unhappy for eternity. That was an implication by MsJack. but surely LDS women don't look forward to eternity as an unhappy existence.

[_Buffalo]

Yes, these are very fair points. However, it still beats out the complete arbitrary and unfair everlasting torture that your version of God has in store for most of his creations.

I think its more fair to consider that most LDS women look forward to eternity as a place of happiness though. I don't think she raises good points, as much as raises legitimate questions to put to women in the Church, or people who are attracted to those of hte same sex in the Church. And ultimately you are right, even if we grant her caricature of LDS women and such, we are left with the notion that this is lightyears above the traditional Christian view.

Possibly, but a lot of LDS women DO worry about being forced into polygamy - my wife and several of my sisters, for instance.

[_keithb]

you simply don't know what will make "most people" happy in eternity. .

To be fair, neither do you. In that case, shouldn't we let people determine their own metric for happiness, both in this life and in eternity, which is what Ms. Jack seemed to be implicitly arguing in her post?

For example, if one of the gods wants to marry another god instead of a goddess, shouldn't he be allowed to do that?

[_MsJack]

stemelbow ~ I don't understand the point of your reply in the slightest. However, I've never stated or even implied that Mormon women are "duped," so if you're trying to insinuate that I hold to such a view, I'll thank you to retract it.

Yes, these are very fair points. However, it still beats out the complete arbitrary and unfair everlasting torture that my caricatured and ignorant portrayal of your version of God has in store for most of his creations.

Fix't.

To Anyone Else Who is Interested ~ There is not a single Christian view of eternity, heaven, hell, punishment, and sin. There isn't even an official organization that lays out "traditional Christian" beliefs on this matter that we can look to and say with authority, "this is what Christians teach on the matter," as we can with LDS teachings using materials promulgated by the LDS church. I'm but a single Christian and while I believe in hell, I don't believe in "arbitrary and unfair everlasting torture." Buffalo has never asked me about my beliefs on the matter, so he speaks from ignorance when he makes assertions about what I believe. I feel very confident that what I personally believe is far from "inferior" to the LDS view.

Now, what many traditional Christians have taught and believed about hell, who goes there, and for what reasons is inferior to the LDS view. Christian depictions of hell have sometimes been graphic, horrifying, and outright disturbing. That's not horribly surprising though. Mormonism came after Christianity, and as such it made an effort to improve on Christianity's perceived flaws (real or imagined). In doing so, it managed to add problems of its own that hadn't existed in traditional Christian theology, hence the point of my first post in this thread. I could envision someone trying to develop a new Mormon movement that improved on the flaws in the LDS version of the afterlife. (In fact, I think it's one of the major failings of some of the people who have recently claimed to be prophets for new LDS movements, such as Matthew Gill and his Book of Jeraneck following, that they haven't tried to fill in and improve on the gaps in LDS theology, and why these movements don't have any real staying power.)

I don't care to have a conversation with Buffalo on the matter because my past experiences with him have led me to conclude that he has little interest in sincerely understanding the beliefs of another. If anybody else is interested in this topic, let me know and I'll consider starting a thread in Celestial.

[_stemelbow]

Possibly, but a lot of LDS women DO worry about being forced into polygamy - my wife and several of my sisters, for instance.

We all have some worries.

[_stemelbow]

[quote="MsJack"] ~ I don't understand the point of your reply in the slightest. However, I've never stated or even implied that Mormon women are "duped," so if you're trying to insinuate that I hold to such a view, I'll thank you to retract it.

Here's my point, MsJack: "I think its more fair to consider that most LDS women look forward to eternity as a place of happiness though. I don't think she raises good points, as much as raises legitimate questions to put to women in the Church, or people who are attracted to those of hte same sex in the Church. And ultimately you are right, even if we grant her caricature of LDS women and such, we are left with the notion that this is lightyears above the traditional Christian view."

I was trying to respond to your notion that women in eternity won't be happy, and that they will forever be subordinated to their husbands in some negative way. Nah...that's not at all the LDS view. The unity will be so grand that there will be no subordination. It'll be unity. And surely LDS women don't see it the way you characterize it, so I think it'd be fair to at least give the women who believe it the benefit of any doubts.

[_stemelbow]

Fix't.

To Anyone Else Who is Interested ~ There is not a single Christian view of eternity, heaven, hell, punishment, and sin. There isn't even an official organization that lays out "traditional Christian" beliefs on this matter that we can look to and say with authority, "this is what Christians teach on the matter," as we can with LDS teachings using materials promulgated by the LDS church. I'm but a single Christian and while I believe in hell, I don't believe in "arbitrary and unfair everlasting torture." Buffalo has never asked me about my beliefs on the matter, so he speaks from ignorance when he makes assertions about what I believe. I feel very confident that what I personally believe is far from "inferior" to the LDS view.

We can all believe whatever we like. But I think Buffalo was going with what "many traditional Christians have taught". I got his point.

Now, what many traditional Christians have taught and believed about hell, who goes there, and for what reasons is inferior to the LDS view. Christian depictions of hell have sometimes been graphic, horrifying, and outright disturbing. That's not horribly surprising though. Mormonism came after Christianity, and as such it made an effort to improve on Christianity's perceived flaws (real or imagined). In doing so, it managed to add problems of its own that hadn't existed in traditional Christian theology, hence the point of my first post in this thread. I could envision someone trying to develop a new Mormon movement that improved on the flaws in the LDS version of the afterlife. (In fact, I think it's one of the major failings of some of the people who have recently claimed to be prophets for new LDS movements, such as Matthew Gill and his Book of Jeraneck following, that they haven't tried to fill in and improve on the gaps in LDS theology, and why these movements don't have any real staying power.)

Sounds kind of like what you personally do with the traditional Christian view. What is heaven to you? I've heard all sorts of things from peole claiming to be non-LDS Christian.

I don't care to have a conversation with Buffalo on the matter because my past experiences with him have led me to conclude that he has little interest in sincerely understanding the beliefs of another. If anybody else is interested in this topic, let me know and I'll consider starting a thread in Celestial.

I'm interested but you might not feel obliged. if not, don't worry abort it.

[_Buffalo]

I don't care to have a conversation with Buffalo on the matter because my past experiences with him have led me to conclude that he has little interest in sincerely understanding the beliefs of another. If anybody else is interested in this topic, let me know and I'll consider starting a thread in Celestial.

Well, Jesus was pretty clear on the state of most of the world - everlasting torture in hell is their fate. I apologize if wrongly assumed you agreed.

I AM interested in what you actually believe. After listening to a podcast on Mormon Expression featuring you and Christ Smith, I had assumed that your beliefs were fairly traditional.