Nephi Kills Himself

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_consiglieri
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Re: Nephi Kills Himself

Post by _consiglieri »

SteelHead wrote:that is some truly amazing wild speculation, demonstrating true creative genius. It is the type of literary creation of meaning in a story where there was none that my English professor who saw Christ figures in every thing and who couldn't just accept that "the old man and the sea" was just a story about a dude and a fish without multiple layers of deep hidden meanings would applaud.


There is certainly always that danger in trying to pierce the "true meaning" of a text. And yet some texts do have authorial meanings imbedded in them. In other words, there is a message put into the story itself which may tend to illustrate themes the author seeks to address in a narrative, rather than a didactic, fashion.

And it is always possible to pull something like this out of a story where the author intended no such thing.

I remember my high school Humanities teacher who went on and on about the symbolism in Huckleberry Finn, in spite of Twain's admonition not to do so at the front of the book. And yet there are a lot of profound themes in Huckleberry Finn, at least some of which I think Twain was fully aware when he wrote it.

On a related note, I think those stories that move us most often do so because they reach us on a deep level, the narratives speaking to our hearts in the language of archetype, a language which we may not even be able to articulate, but only to feel.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_consiglieri
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Re: Nephi Kills Himself

Post by _consiglieri »

Sethbag wrote:I mean, well done and all, seriously, but in the service of what? It still didn't really happen, in the real world, apart from in our minds.


I appreciate the kind words, Seth, I mean about my brain cells and everything.

Maybe it is just a waste of time and energy, after all.

But then, any other problem I put my brain cells to work on solving would likely be a waste, as well.

At least I have some fun in the process.

Things fall apart. The center cannot hold.
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.


All the Best!

--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_SteelHead
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Re: Nephi Kills Himself

Post by _SteelHead »

The Old Man and the Sea isn't "just a story about a dude and a fish." It has some of the most heavy-handed Christian symbolism in American literature.



Yeah I know, but I like it better as just a story about a dude and a fish. It is sufficient and beautiful when viewed just as that. Sometimes fishing is well..... just fishing. But, it is not always just about catching fish.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_consiglieri
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Re: Nephi Kills Himself

Post by _consiglieri »

zeezrom wrote:Consig,

I, of course, have no problem at all with this kind of fun interpretation of the stories in the Book of Mormon.

There is a problem in the logic, however. Nicholas Cage was already that guy then he killed that guy. Whereas, Nephi wasn't that guy then killed the guy then became that guy? Very problematic indeed. Well, maybe the soul of Laban possessed the body of Nephi after he was murdered. Now that could have some traction! Are there signs in the story of Nephi having a dual personality?

Whatcha think?


I think you are a good thinker, Zeez.

You are right that Nephi does not take upon himself the clothing of Laban until after he kills him, and that this poses a problem for my interpretation.

The thing I like about it, though, is that Nephi's "natural man" of thinking he can get the plates himself does run concurrently in the narrative with Laban thwarting Nephi from getting the plates.

It is only when Nephi relies on God (thus symbolically slaying his own natural man) which happens at the same point in the text as Nephi relying on God to slay Laban, that the way is open for Nephi to accomplish his mission.

Heck, as long as we are talking in symbolic terms, we may as well call it what it is--it is Nephi's quest.

But as to your question, maybe an aspect of Nephi's "dual personality" is manifest in 2 Nephi 4 when Nephi drops the whole macho man attitude and reveals himself as an insecure and lonely individual.



All the Best!

--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_consiglieri
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Re: Nephi Kills Himself

Post by _consiglieri »

Morley wrote:
Consig. I love your interpretation.


Behold, a poster of erudition and discernment.

Thanks for the kind words, Morley!

All the Best!

--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Morley
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Re: Nephi Kills Himself

Post by _Morley »

SteelHead wrote:
The Old Man and the Sea isn't "just a story about a dude and a fish." It has some of the most heavy-handed Christian symbolism in American literature.



Yeah I know, but I like it better as just a story about a dude and a fish. It is sufficient and beautiful when viewed just as that. Sometimes fishing is well..... just fishing. But, it is not always just about catching fish.


It's just that Hemingway not only beats you into a stupor with his symbolism, he tattoos his message all over your lifeless body and then slaps you awake and forces you to read it again and again.
Last edited by Guest on Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_bcspace
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Re: Nephi Kills Himself

Post by _bcspace »

Back in the 1980’s, I watched a move called “Raising Arizona.”


My itching ears would rather hear a Dirty Harry comparison.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_consiglieri
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Re: Nephi Kills Himself

Post by _consiglieri »

A man's got to know his limitations.

The identity change may indeed go both ways.

Nephi does some extremely unNephilike things after he puts on Laban's armor, not to mention the beheading of Laban immediately before.

Nephi misrepresents to Zoram that he is Laban, and steals a rather valuable record on brass plates from Laban's treasury.

'Tis now the very witching time of night,
When churchyards yawn and hell itself breathes out
Contagion to this world. Now could I drink hot blood
And do such bitter business as the day
Would quake to look on.


All the Best!

--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Blixa
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Re: Nephi Kills Himself

Post by _Blixa »

Morley wrote:
SteelHead wrote:
Yeah I know, but I like it better as just a story about a dude and a fish. It is sufficient and beautiful when viewed just as that. Sometimes fishing is well..... just fishing. But, it is not always just about catching fish.


It's just that Hemingway not only beats you into a stupor with his symbolism, he tattoos his message all over your lifeless body and then slaps you awake and forces you to read it again and again.


No kidding.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_bcspace
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Re: Nephi Kills Himself

Post by _bcspace »

A man's got to know his limitations.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0

Ahhh....that hit the spot.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
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