LDS Church not Right Wing

[_moksha]

Critics of the LDS Church like to paint it as extreme right wing, ...

This is not limited just to critics. Some members have expressed right wing political views to the point where these views are considered de rigueur in order for one's membership in the LDS Church to be considered "good".

I can somewhat see the confusion, because Caesar was of "flesh and bone" and that gives the illusion of a celestial being. None of Caesar's legionaries were women.

[_KevinSim]

It also is not unique, or rare in the faiths you are comparing Mormonism with. For example, some Catholic nuns are given religious authority over others ("mother superior", etc.).

Yes, but do the Catholic nuns perform ordinances?

Women in the temple washing and annointing seems to me to be analogous to priests and deacons passing the sacrament. When the sacrament is passed, women just sit there and let the bread and water come to them. In the temple they have more to do, and there are women officiating in the ordinances they get involved in.

[_KevinSim]

Kevinsim, you have not met bcspace you can't be a good Mormon and be anything but a fear mongering rightwinger.

I've talked with Bcspace. He's just plain wrong. That doesn't mean there aren't other Latter-day Saints like him.

I carpool in to work with a fellow who commented that he had heard that Harry Reid was an inactive Mormon. I told him I found that a little hard to believe; I had heard that he has a home-teaching route that he visits every month, and that sounds pretty active to me.

My carpool companion commented that he didn't know how someone could be a Socialist and still be an active Latter-day Saint. I probably should have pointed out to him that the fact that Reid is a high-ranking Democrat does not make him a Socialist, but instead I just told him that there is room in the LDS Church for people of different political persuasions, even for Harry Reid. In fact the Church had a letter read in Sacrament Meetings a few months back that emphasized the principles in each of the two major political parties are not at odds with the principles of the Gospel. I was glad to hear that.

[_KevinSim]

The Catholic Church doesn't teach that women need to either be married or live longing for marriage in order to make it to heaven.

I think implying that single LDS women need to long for marriage is a bit of an exaggeration. Single women (like single men) just need to lead mature enough lives that they can handle a marriage opportunity should one arise. Oh, and by the way, men also need to either be married or have that maturity level (and be willing to get married), in order to "make it to heaven."

[_moksha]

My carpool companion commented that he didn't know how someone could be a Socialist and still be an active Latter-day Saint.

The idea that you cannot be a Saint and also care about the welfare of others, does tend to indicate that this individual has withdrawn from the religious realm and replaced it with a political ideology.

[_MCB]

Single women (like single men) just need to lead mature enough lives that they can handle a marriage opportunity should one arise. Oh, and by the way, men also need to either be married or have that maturity level (and be willing to get married), in order to "make it to heaven."

And Catholics have the right to decline a marriage opportunity should one arise. An individual might might have a personality type [not deemed an inferiority] which make celibacy a better option. Obsessive-compulsives, for example, can channel those traits for good purposes, but might not want to subject another person to some of the lesser characteristis of that personality type. I, for example, tend to allow myself to be dominated by others-- for that reason, I live a rather reclusive lifestyle. A bad marriage contributed to that decision.

Not everyone fits that mold. Humanity is diverse.

Yes, but do the Catholic nuns perform ordinances?

If the parish priest is absent, and there is not another one available, a person of either gender can lead a service at which the readings for the day are delivered, and the pre-blessed Sacrament can be distributed [by either gender]

[_MCB]

The idea that you cannot be a Saint and also care about the welfare of others, does tend to indicate that this individual has withdrawn from the religious realm and replaced it with a political ideology.

Not to mention ignoring large passages from the D&C. Edward Partridge was apparently very dedicated to his calling. And look at what Joseph Smith did to his daughters after he died.

[_angsty]

It also is not unique, or rare in the faiths you are comparing Mormonism with. For example, some Catholic nuns are given religious authority over others ("mother superior", etc.).

Yes, but do the Catholic nuns perform ordinances?

Women in the temple washing and annointing seems to me to be analogous to priests and deacons passing the sacrament. When the sacrament is passed, women just sit there and let the bread and water come to them. In the temple they have more to do, and there are women officiating in the ordinances they get involved in.

I think you are missing substantial points of disanalogy. In your stated case a few women have special dispensation to perform limited ordinance work under the authority of the priesthood. Female ordinance workers only perform ordinances in the temple involving other women. They only do so in a circumstance in which a man performing the ordinance work would likely be thought inappropriate. As I understand it, none of these female ordinance workers actually hold the priesthood. In all other cases, ordinances are performed by men. Any 12 year-old boy who gives the right answers to a bishop's interview will be ordained to actually hold the Aaronic priesthood and serve the men and women of his congregation.

I think you are also overstating the significance of this exception-- it is an exception after all.

Further, it isn't just that women don't hold the priesthood or perform ordinances (with one exception, which you have pointed out). It's the patriarchal structure of authority in which authority is entirely male. Even the auxiliary women's organizations operate under male authority. Pointing out one exceptional circumstance in which women perform ordinance work only for other women, doesn't support a claim that the church is "radical", or "liberal" in this regard. The conservative, right-wing patriarchal structure is still firmly in place-- authority is still almost entirely male.

[_KevinSim]

If the parish priest is absent, and there is not another one available, a person of either gender can lead a service at which the readings for the day are delivered, and the pre-blessed Sacrament can be distributed [by either gender]

I stand corrected. So basically women in the Roman Catholic Church have the authority of LDS deacons (who pass the sacrament), but not the authority of LDS priests (who bless the sacrament).

[_MCB]

I stand corrected. So basically women in the Roman Catholic Church have the authority of LDS deacons (who pass the sacrament), but not the authority of LDS priests (who bless the sacrament).

Less sexist than your church. An extraordinary minister of the Eucharist must also be a person whose lifestyle is in conformity with the teachings of the Church.

Given the fragile ego of men, I accept male-only priests in the Catholic Church. I also note that priests of the Catholic Church are generally responsive to criticisms and feedback from women. After all, woment are half of the church.