Bill Hamblin on the Future of Mormon Studies

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_Bob Loblaw
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Re: Bill Hamblin on the Future of Mormon Studies

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

Racer wrote:Why is it that people who leave the MI can't leave the MI alone? :lol:


Exactly right. I've noticed how the MDD board makes fun of this board because people here talk about the MDD and its bizarre alternative reality; but Hamblin and his cohort are doing exactly the same thing to the MI. Once they settle into a comfortable location where they can publish the same old crap they've been peddling, odds are that they will be taking regular pot shots at Bradford and the MI.

So sad to see the light of truth be replaced by anger and resentment.
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_Kishkumen
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Re: Bill Hamblin on the Future of Mormon Studies

Post by _Kishkumen »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Ultimately, I think that Hamblin is saying (in his rather circumspect way) that aggressive, polemical, ad hominem-laced Mopologetics will continue. He seems to be suggesting/saying that religious studies lacks "legit" scholarship, which is kind of a weird charge considering things like "Their Own Corner of Cyberspace" and "Metcalfe is Butthead." Furthermore, the Review was always meant to be, well, a review, and most people realize that there are rather clear differences between book reviews and scholarship per se. His comment re: financing, once again, appears to be saying that no one will want to pay for LDS apologetics that isn't bristling with hostility and mean-spiritedness.

The last thing I'll add here is that I have good reason to believe that the hardcore, Old Guard Mopologists really hate Richard Bushman. I was told this by an "informant"--i.e., that they were royally pissed off at him (Midgley in particular) in the wake of last year's Gold Plates seminer--they were angry that he was friendly to "hardcore apostates and anti-Mormons" like Mike Reed and Chris Smith. Perhaps the best evidence for the truth of these sentiments can be found in the slip-ups of their biggest loud-mouth, Will Schryver, who was openly bashing Rough Stone Rolling not all that long ago.


I think this is exactly right. Hamblin is essentially telling us that because certain Mormons with deep pockets really relish apologetics that amount to punching the person who disagrees with you in the nose, or hounding them incessantly for daring to say something you don't like, such nasty apologetics will continue. And I do agree that people like Hamblin and Schryver take issue with any LDS scholar who does not draw a bold line between "us" and "them." If Bushman is nice to doubting Mormons or non-LDS folk who disagree with LDS apologetics of a certain brand, then he is not being loyal, in their view, and he must take a hit for his disloyalty. They are only too happy to be the guys to hold him down and give him the soap in the pillowcase treatment.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Cicero
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Re: Bill Hamblin on the Future of Mormon Studies

Post by _Cicero »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Ultimately, I think that Hamblin is saying (in his rather circumspect way) that aggressive, polemical, ad hominem-laced Mopologetics will continue. He seems to be suggesting/saying that religious studies lacks "legit" scholarship, which is kind of a weird charge considering things like "Their Own Corner of Cyberspace" and "Metcalfe is Butthead." Furthermore, the Review was always meant to be, well, a review, and most people realize that there are rather clear differences between book reviews and scholarship per se. His comment re: financing, once again, appears to be saying that no one will want to pay for LDS apologetics that isn't bristling with hostility and mean-spiritedness.

The last thing I'll add here is that I have good reason to believe that the hardcore, Old Guard Mopologists really hate Richard Bushman. I was told this by an "informant"--i.e., that they were royally pissed off at him (Midgley in particular) in the wake of last year's Gold Plates seminer--they were angry that he was friendly to "hardcore apostates and anti-Mormons" like Mike Reed and Chris Smith. Perhaps the best evidence for the truth of these sentiments can be found in the slip-ups of their biggest loud-mouth, Will Schryver, who was openly bashing Rough Stone Rolling not all that long ago.


As I mentioned in my OP, if you read between the lines Hamblin is essentially taking shots at non-believing scholars (like Chris or Mike) or scholars afflicted with the "nicompoopery" of political correctness and I think that was clearly a shot at academics like Bushman. Bill believes that quality Mormon studies can only be produced by people that think and write just like him.
_MrStakhanovite
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Re: Bill Hamblin on the Future of Mormon Studies

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

For someone who claims to do religious studies, he sure does know dick about it. I read the PDF and his criticisms of “secularized religious studies” are inane and pretty much out of touch.

Bill, stop acting like a dolt do some real reading. Start here. Lincoln is what you should aspire to be, he has a similar academic background but he’s bothered to go through the actual process of becoming familiar with religious studies before trying to offer constructive criticisms and naming specific problems.
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Bill Hamblin on the Future of Mormon Studies

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

An epic and wholly laudable post from LoaP over on MDD:

LifeOnaPlate wrote:The main problem I have with Hamblin's piece is that it fails to engage any actual people, any actual arguments, aside from a brief, dismissive reference to Claremont. Hamblin doesn't define Mormon studies. Instead, he rhetorically denigrates it by referring to it as a “fad,” and offers up a caricature which can’t actually be verified by readers without considerable assumptions on the part of any given reader. Rhetorically, he has set himself up to win an easy victory against precisely no one.

So first he sets up a distorted picture of what might constitute Mormon studies, then he claims that Mormon studies doesn't actually exist. The essay is a brief exercise in de-legitimization, a political wrangling, and it tastes a little of sour grapes. I suggest this is the case because, as Hamblin argues, some of the folks who fancy themselves part of Mormon studies have criticized the work of FARMS to which Hamblin feels (felt) a deep allegiance. He says people have claimed apologetics should be out of bounds. This fails to discriminate between people who don't like apologetics altogether and people who merely object to a certain style or approach of particular apologetics. This explains why he can claim: The fact that the director of the Maxwell Institute has decided to no longer allow the Institute or its employees to publish LDS apologetics will, in the long run, not even put a small dent in the effort." Other than Hamblin and DCP I haven't seen anyone say NAMI will no longer publish apologetics.



Scott Lloyd wrote:What is "Mormon Studies," anyway? The definition seems to be somewhat nebulous. Is it ivory-tower esoterica?

Are we to assume that it excludes any scholarly activity pertaining to Mormonism up until the founding of the graduate program at Claremont?


No, and I don't think anyone said it did. But perhaps Hamblin's assumptions would require such a strange notion.

Oddly enough, one of the best analyses of Mormon studies as a newer phenomenon appeared under the editorship of DCP in the FARMS Review! Gerald Bradford wrote it:

http://maxwellinstit...19&num=1&id=640

It isn't perfect, but it does a good job of laying out the conclusion that Mormon studies is in fact a rising interest in the academy. (Also, someone alert the HBL Library at BYU, because they think MoStudies exists, too: http://guides.lib.by.../mormonstudies/)

Joseph Antley speaks well:

Joseph Antley wrote:I think Hamblin is overstating a bit...there are a number of peer-reviewed journals devoted to Mormon studies, graduate programs, and research groups. And interest in Mormonism by outsiders is only growing, and I really think that the majority of those in the field have abandoned the "us vs. them" mentality that, in my opinion, leads to much of the negativity.

Hamblin is right that Mormon studies may still be a relatively tiny field, but I only see growth and positive things on the horizon.


Hamblin's conclusion says:

Furthermore, for the most part, only Mormons--or their marginalized and ex-Mormons counterparts--actually do Mormon studies...The fact of the matter is that, up until now, there simply have not bee enough interested non-Mormons willing to devote the time and study necessary to master the field. Ask yourself: who are the top ten non-Mormon scholars on Mormon religion?


I doubt anyone here could name the top 5 scholars or journals of biochemistry, theoretical physics, Islamic studies, or botany. I don't think that actually proves anything. But I can immediately name 5 non-Mormon scholars off the top of my head who have done great work in MoStudies (which is, basically, the study of religion using the various tools of a variety of academic approaches and methodologies, ie, a subset of religious studies) who don’t fall under Hamblin's categorization: Turner, Gutjahr, Mould, Shipps, Maffly-Kipp. Claremont's journal, Dialogue, the Journal of Mormon History, and the International Journal of Mormon Studies are all good journals as well. And here is a list of university courses, small but growing, on Mormon themes:

http://timesandseaso...tudies-courses/

As others have noted, no one is claiming that Mormon studies is going to take over the world, that it will dominate the university, that it will revolutionize human existence and demand attention from all scholars. Instead, we see it as a growing interest in the academy that may or may not stick around for the long term, but the present prospects are promising, and they are producing some wonderful work. And most importantly, the work does not exclude apologetics, even if a very tiny fraction of it criticizes various apologetic attempts or approaches.

Just to reiterate my most important point: Hamblin tries to make the argument that Mormon studies doesn't exist, and that in order to be legit, it must have large departments at multiple universities. This is simply a subjective opinion about what might legitimize a particular academic study. Such academic studies as fields are socially constructed---they exist to the extent that communities of scholars participate in their discourses through conferences, journals, blogs, books, etc. So Hamblin argues against (and skews) the discursive community of Mormon studies, and then argues that it doesn't actually exist, in addition to arguing that it isn't big enough to count, ignoring any counter evidence. His arguing against it proves its existence, even if he doesn't like how it is constituted. (And even then, I think he misrepresents how it is constituted.)


I also have to add that it's really surprising to see somebody like Ben McGuire siding with Bill "The Hutt" Hamblin. C'mon, you guys: do you really need an apologetics that's dependent on snarkiness, personal attacks, and smear campaigns? I don't think that you do.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Blixa
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Re: Bill Hamblin on the Future of Mormon Studies

Post by _Blixa »

Thanks for pointing that out, Scratch. I would have missed LOAP's post otherwise and it's very good.
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_MrStakhanovite
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Re: Bill Hamblin on the Future of Mormon Studies

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

Hot damn, LOAP has really come into his own.
_Cicero
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Re: Bill Hamblin on the Future of Mormon Studies

Post by _Cicero »

Doctor Scratch wrote:I also have to add that it's really surprising to see somebody like Ben McGuire siding with Bill "The Hutt" Hamblin. C'mon, you guys: do you really need an apologetics that's dependent on snarkiness, personal attacks, and smear campaigns? I don't think that you do.


I can't speak for Ben, but I don't think that is what he was saying. I have generally found Ben to be a very reasonable guy. I think he was mostly siding with Bill in criticizing the value of "secularized" studies of Mormonism rather than promoting DCP-style apologetics.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Bill Hamblin on the Future of Mormon Studies

Post by _Kishkumen »

LOaP said it well, and he is correct.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: Bill Hamblin on the Future of Mormon Studies

Post by _Kishkumen »

Cicero wrote: I think he was mostly siding with Bill in criticizing the value of "secularized" studies of Mormonism rather than promoting DCP-style apologetics.


It is still a disappointing reaction.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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