Breaking Down the Programming

[_zeezrom]

I don't think shame-based programming is unique to Mormons but it is definitely in the culture. Although, if I had grown up Catholic, I'm pretty sure I would not have felt quite so bad about myself growing up.

[_Yoda]

I don't think shame-based programming is unique to Mormons but it is definitely in the culture. Although, if I had grown up Catholic, I'm pretty sure I would not have felt quite so bad about myself growing up.

I have a very dear friend who is very active in the Catholic Church. He has a lot of "shame issues" as well. I think that, like anything, it depends on how strictly we are brought up in a given religion, and how strictly we choose to live it based on how we internalize it.

Good thread, Just Me!

[_Madison54]

How long do you suppose it takes to break down the programming received for decades as a Mormon?

Hi just me!
This is a great thread and I've thought a lot about it since I first read your OP.

For me, I fear that the answer to your question above is that I may never fully break down the programming. I hope that's not true, but I have to accept that it could be.

I still have tinges of guilt when I order a glass of wine with dinner. I still feel as if I'm doing something wrong when I have my coffee or cappuccino in the morning. I consciously know I'm not....but with all the years of indoctrination, the feelings still come.

For me, I think this will lesson greatly if and when all my kids have figured out the truth. I still have lots of TBMs in my life and so I feel like I still have one foot in and one foot out at times. If this ever happens, maybe I can completely leave and it will also leave me alone.

I totally get your thoughts and question though!

[_zeezrom]

Given how damned difficult it is to motivate my children to go back to church after having been inactive for 2 years, I'd say children are programmed.

[_Yoda]

Given how damned difficult it is to motivate my children to go back to church after having been inactive for 2 years, I'd say children are programmed.

My son is autistic, and very honest about his feelings. He hates Church and makes no bones about it. It is a real struggle. Basically, I just tell him that sometimes we all do things we don't like to do.

[_ludwigm]

Ludwig,

If you don't mind:

Interrogator:
- When were you brainwashed?

Survivor:
- I was brainwashed?

OK. I am thankful to every fix.

Some time or other I may reach to be understood more than two-fifths of my comments. (Bret Ripley worded it...)

[_just me]

Thanks for all the great comments.

I guess the most recent thing for me has been feeling ashamed for receiving inappropriate attention from someone.

Basically, I feel like it's my fault for being a cupcake and that I should try to not be a cupcake so that nobody will want to lick me.



Of course, anyone who has read my posts here knows that I am a very sex positive person and that I don't think that people are sinful or evil for having natural desires. I also know in my head that how a man (or woman) chooses to act on those desires is their own responsibility. It's just that my inner most soul seems to still be on the previous programming.

[_Drifting]

I guess the most recent thing for me has been feeling ashamed for receiving inappropriate attention from someone.

Okay, okay, I've said I'm sorry already...

[_angsty]

I think it's just a matter of giving your instincts time to re-calibrate to a change in philosophy.

I used to feel very self-conscious about actions and thoughts that violated the norms I was raised with. I used to remove my nose stud, and wear sleeves around Mormon friends and family members so that the obvious signs of my apostasy wouldn't be offending their every glance. I also used to hide the coffeemaker and the liquor so that when LDS friends and family visited, they wouldn't feel 'evil' in my house. I'd also make sure that I wasn't tagged in photos taken in bars, etc. I wasn't trying to give a false impression, I just didn't want to make an issue of it and it has been my experience that caring members of the church often consider such changes made by others to be an assault on their deeply-held values.

Also, for quite some time, I was very conscious of the ways in which my new behavior deviated from my upbringing and previous spiritual commitments. I didn't disapprove of myself, I was just keenly aware that people holding my former values would. I'd watch a movie or have a drink, or wear a tank-top, or read a book and I'd have a quick confrontation between my Mormon/Formon selves. I knew intellectually that I wasn't doing wrong, but it took a while for me to stop having to have that mental experience of re-evaluating and reminding.

My last Mormon friends moved away two years ago and it has been a while since I've associated with Mormons qua Mormons. Recently I've found that I just keep forgetting to think about all those little things. Mormonism just hasn't figured into my life beyond message boards and I've learned to stop being self-conscious about it. My Utah TBM brother-in-law recently came by for a visit while on a business trip and I completely forgot to stash the wine rack, tea shrine, and coffee paraphernalia. I also forgot to wear sleeves and strap my cleavage down into modest submission. I also told dirty jokes and used unbecoming language over dinner. Basically, I just went as myself.

It was a relief, and it seemed to happen without me really trying anything. I used to find myself feeling this pull to conform to LDS standards of thought and conduct, and there was a constant tension present during the process of getting used to my new life. Then one day I noticed that remembering to care about those things became harder, and now I just do whatever and only think about it during reflective moments like this when I'm actually trying to find examples of how I've gotten used to thought and behavior that would have been shocking and distressing to my previous self.

Basically, just keep on keeping on and before you know it you're at the bottom of the slippery slope of immorality and having such a good time that can't remember the ride-- it's like being sucked into a fairy ring.

[Guest]

Some time or other I may reach to be understood more than two-fifths of my comments. Bret Ripley worded it...

Sometimes, Bret Ripley is an ass (although I think it is usually accidental). I meant it as a joke, and if it offended you then I regret it very much indeed.