Is an Obama/Liberal/Leftist sub-forum needed?

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_krose
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Re: Is an Obama/Liberal/Leftist sub-forum needed?

Post by _krose »

bcspace wrote:Progressives are actually Regressives, doomed to repeat history, and that is the same as a Liberal/Leftist/Marxist/Socialist.

I know you think you're being clever with this, but it's just really dumb. Junior high level dumb.

A regressive attitude would be attempting to stop progress (like advances in minority rights) and return to the way things were (like to the days of dangerous illegal abortions, and the time when women and brown people knew their places).

Basically a conservative mindset.
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_Quasimodo
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Re: Is an Obama/Liberal/Leftist sub-forum needed?

Post by _Quasimodo »

bcspace wrote:Well yes, Nazi is a Socialist party. I don't see what you have against Kenyans though. One of my best missionary companions was a Kenyan. We served in LA and he despised American black culture.


I'm not sure if I know any Kenyans. I'm sure I would like them if I did. Oddly, I almost ended up growing up in Kenya (long story).

So, you're saying that some of your best friends are Kenyan and they hate black culture?

How lucky you were to have a Kenyan companion while serving your mission. There can't be very many of them.

It must have been tough having to learn Californian at MTC. The Valley Girl dialect must have been especially painful (it was for me when I first moved here).
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_Gadianton
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Re: Is an Obama/Liberal/Leftist sub-forum needed?

Post by _Gadianton »

Do you think that is a bad thing?


Yes and no. Yes I think it's bad, as in bad thinking, that leftism is seen as the key to unlock any topic. No, I don't think it's bad that they can post wherever they want. Mainly, I was just joking about the difference in perspective, for a normal person, discussions of "leftism" is a special topic class. For others, nothing could be more relevant to any and every conversation.
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_Brackite
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Re: Is an Obama/Liberal/Leftist sub-forum needed?

Post by _Brackite »

I wander if these Republicans are also progressives now since they have come out in support of same-sex marriages.

From nbcnews.com:

Once 'inconceivable,' Republican leaders sign pro-gay marriage brief

...

Supporters of same-sex marriage hope for a boost this week when dozens of high-profile Republicans, many no longer in office, submit their legal argument to the Supreme Court on why gays and lesbians should be allowed to wed, bucking their party's platform in a move that one who had a change of heart on the issue said would “strengthen our nation as a whole.”

More than 80 Republicans are signatories to the "friend of the Court" brief to be filed in the case over Proposition 8, a California law banning same-sex marriage, according to the American Foundation for Equal Rights, which is waging the legal battle against the law. The nation’s high court will hear arguments in the case in late March. The New York Times first reported on the brief.

One scholar described the effort as “inconceivable” just two years ago, and one of the signers, former California gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman, said in a blog that she had changed her mind on the issue, “like several others who have either sought or held public office, including President Obama.”

“As the Republican nominee for governor of California three years ago, I supported the majority of Californians who voted for Proposition 8 and against same sex marriage,” Whitman, president and chief executive officer of Hewlett-Packard Co., said in a separate statement. “After careful review and reflection since then, I have come to embrace civil marriage for same sex couples.”

She noted in her blog that same-sex families “should have equal access to the benefits of marriage” and later added: “Establishing a constitutional right of marriage equality in California will strengthen our nation as a whole.”

Six former governors, including Jon Huntsman of Utah and Christine Todd Whitman of New Jersey, and members of President George W. Bush’s cabinet, such as former Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez, four former and two current members of Congress signed the brief, AFER said. Members of the Mitt Romney and Sen. John McCain presidential campaigns also signed.

The brief will be filed Thursday, according to the Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights group. Additional names were still being added to it, said AFER, which noted one of its lead attorneys on the case was a conservative, former U.S. Solicitor General Ted Olson, who argued for Bush before the Supreme Court after the disputed 2000 presidential election.

Michael Klarman, a Harvard Law School professor and author of “From the Closet to the Altar: Courts, Backlash, and the Struggle for Same-Sex Marriage,” called it an “incredibly important development” and noted the brief could influence Justice Anthony Kennedy, whom he said was the swing vote on gay marriage.

“The fact that more and more Republicans are coming out in favor of gay marriage simply confirms how dramatic the shift in public opinion has been -- and that is a fact that likely is of great significance to Justice Kennedy,” he wrote to NBC News in an email. “Even two years ago, it would have been inconceivable that this many prominent Republicans would have been willing to buck their party platform on the issue.”

In an article last week, former Republican presidential candidate Huntsman wrote that as governor he had backed civil unions but now was supporting marriage for gays and lesbians.

...
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_Quasimodo
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Re: Is an Obama/Liberal/Leftist sub-forum needed?

Post by _Quasimodo »

Gadianton wrote:
Do you think that is a bad thing?


Yes and no. Yes I think it's bad, as in bad thinking, that leftism is seen as the key to unlock any topic. No, I don't think it's bad that they can post wherever they want. Mainly, I was just joking about the difference in perspective, for a normal person, discussions of "leftism" is a special topic class. For others, nothing could be more relevant to any and every conversation.


:biggrin: I see your point. I find it funny how some will work conservative politics into the most benign subjects. If you post a comment admiring a new red shirt, someone here will accuse you of communist tendencies.

Ah, the price of free speech.

Added: Coincidentally, I just saw this. Seems to have some relevance (short).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/09/bill-maher-asks-why-everything-political_n_2844259.html
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

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_moksha
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Re: Is an Obama/Liberal/Leftist sub-forum needed?

Post by _moksha »

bcspace wrote: Progressives are actually Regressives, ...


Up is down and full is empty
reversies rule
and bull is plenty.
- Moksha Haasa Longfellow :wink:

by the way, I agree with Quasimodo and think many opinions are what makes for a good board. We need
the piquant Bcspace, the fiery Droopy, the sweet Blixa and the chalk dust of the many academics to
make for such a good stew.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_krose
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Re: Is an Obama/Liberal/Leftist sub-forum needed?

Post by _krose »

Brackite wrote:I wander if these Republicans are also progressives now since they have come out in support of same-sex marriages.

If they are sincere (and I believe they are), then yes, they are progressive regarding that one issue. Certainly there are socially progressive Republicans, just as there are socially regressive/conservative Democrats.

The Republican party's platform, of course, is the very definition of regressive. But on the plus side, right-wing Republicans only want to take us back to the 50s, whereas the Taliban wants to take their society back to the middle ages. So they're not so bad, by comparison. Those two conservative groups definitely differ in degree (although sometimes I wonder about the most strident "tea party" people).
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_mledbetter
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Re: Is an Obama/Liberal/Leftist sub-forum needed?

Post by _mledbetter »

krose wrote:
Brackite wrote:I wander if these Republicans are also progressives now since they have come out in support of same-sex marriages.

If they are sincere (and I believe they are), then yes, they are progressive regarding that one issue. Certainly there are socially progressive Republicans, just as there are socially regressive/conservative Democrats.

The Republican party's platform, of course, is the very definition of regressive. But on the plus side, right-wing Republicans only want to take us back to the 50s, whereas the Taliban wants to take their society back to the middle ages. So they're not so bad, by comparison. Those two conservative groups definitely differ in degree (although sometimes I wonder about the most strident "tea party" people).



The smug embracing of every novel idea that comes along does not make one a progressive.

Being overly prudent about jumping into every novel idea that liberals come up with does not make one a regressive.
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Is an Obama/Liberal/Leftist sub-forum needed?

Post by _Kevin Graham »

mledbetter wrote:The smug embracing of every novel idea that comes along does not make one a progressive.

Being overly prudent about jumping into every novel idea that liberals come up with does not make one a regressive.


Very true. However, the outright rejection of any new ideas, on the sole basis that liberals came up with them, would probably qualify one as a regressive.

Just for kicks, if you can list the novel ideas produced by Republicans over the past five years to improve the economy, I'd love to hear them. It seems all they're willing to support are more tax cuts for the wealthy, er, I mean "job creators," along with dramatic slashes to social programs that mostly benefit everyone else.
_mledbetter
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Re: Is an Obama/Liberal/Leftist sub-forum needed?

Post by _mledbetter »

Kevin Graham wrote:Very true. However, the outright rejection of any new ideas, on the sole basis that liberals came up with them, would probably qualify one as a regressive.

Just for kicks, if you can list the novel ideas produced by Republicans over the past five years to improve the economy, I'd love to hear them. It seems all they're willing to support are more tax cuts for the wealthy, er, I mean "job creators," along with dramatic slashes to social programs that mostly benefit everyone else.


Yes, as if raising taxes on the working rich (not so much on the "old money" rich, because that would hurt their friends) is so novel.

Oh, and when I say novelty, I mean the latest craze. Not that it's original or anything like that.

I wouldn't make the argument that the Republican party has come up with any new ideas. They are the party of conservatism (supposedly) and tradition. I would make the argument, actually, that having both the left and the right is a good thing (yin and yang).
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