Tired of the Guns vs Government liberal argument....

[_ldsfaqs]

When people say 'the liberal argument' or 'the conservative argument' and try to make an all-encompassing, one-size fits all characterization of the argument, they don't address individual points that have been raised.

Oh, we understand them alright.

There are several issues being discussed concerning gun violence in the United States:

Mandatory background checks
Better communication between law enforcement and mental health professionals
Restricting access to firearms for people with mental illness
Banning assault-type weapons
Banning high capacity magazines

The only things that are "reasonable" are the top three.
But in fact only the 2nd & 3rd are reasonable, for the in the first the devil is in the details.
As to the later two, why? You do know that some peoples version so "high capacity" is anything more than 3 rounds or 10? Do you REALLY think that's high capacity and even reasonable? Heck know. Actual high capacity is 50+. They are wanting to ban NORMAL capacity, not simply high capacity. Further, wasn't it only like ONE incident of mass shootings where someone even had a high capacity magazine, and it jammed or something so the guy didn't even use it? How is THAT somehow solving the problems of mental illness?

Further, liberal poster children UK & Australia for how "gun bans" work, stats show ZERO decrease in actual death and violence, but even an increase in violence and other crimes because people are left defenseless.

The only people I have heard talk about the confiscation of all firearms are those who are trying to stoke the gun owners' fears.

You need to pay attention to peoples words and history closer, educated yourself instead of the current propaganda. Almost every liberal who say's they just want some "reasonable" gun restrictions have said before that they would like all guns to be banned. I've already posted a link to Feinstien for example, and I've mentioned Piers Morgan.

Further, look at history and other countries. Name a single example in which "gun control" hasn't resulted in either near or total gun bans???

I understand and appreciate that many Americans have a long-going cultural tradition of having guns for protection and hunting.

You say you appreciate it, but in fact you actually don't.

But our devotion to guns in this country has moved beyond necessity and becomes a fetishistic cult. When a 2 year old girl is shot dead by her 5 year old brother with his own rifle, I can't help feeling that a little girl's life was sacrificed on the alter of unfettered and irresponsible gun ownership. It goes beyond the negligence of the mother and father who allowed the gun to sit unsupervised in their home. 5 year olds do not need to be shooting or owning guns.

Stop equating the very RARE irresponsible and extremely moronic gun owner with the rest of us, the 99.9% who ARE responsible, serious, etc. when it concerns anything dangerous, especially guns.

The very fact that you have to equate US to those slime parents demonstrates your lack of intellectual argument. You create a strawman to attack us with.

Good point. I'll have to go back and re-watch Red Dawn and Starship Troopers.

While you're at it, watch "An American Story", Innocents Betrayed, and other videos on Youtube for example which argue for what is wrong with "gun control".

by the way, Washington DC, New York, Chicago etc.... have total or near total gun bans.
Are you REALLY going to try and tell us that liberals don't "really" want to take away a person's right to self defense???

[_ldsfaqs]

Good point. I'll have to go back and re-watch Red Dawn and Starship Troopers.

LDSfaqs sees himself as Patrick Swayze. In reality he'd be the guy captured and locked up at the drive in five minutes after the first Spetsnaz commandos landed.

And you just demonstrate WHY "gun registration" is immoral and why the right to privacy for the law abiding is important. Also, no.... I don't "flaunt" my gun ownership, etc. So no, I wouldn't be the first locked up. I would be wise and protect my family long term, and only fight when able.

by the way, you are right about one thing in your statement. I am a lot like Patrick Swayze.
We both are martial artists, singers, I could have been an actor myself, been a bouncer, and I would have done exactly what occurred in Red Dawn.

by the way I think anyone who owns a gun should be able to run an 8 minute mile. That's not asking much.

So you're a liberal elitist who thinks only "skinny" people while adults and later in life are the ONLY people qualified to teach and do things, things that they once used to do and be good at? So, no "fat" coaches, Presidents, fitness teachers, martial arts instructors, etc.???

In other words, you're young and ignorant having no clue that LIFE changes people, in ways that they personally would not have done. So, somehow in your mind, fat people all of a sudden become stupid and unskilled???

What about those in a wheelchair? You would ban them from owning a gun?

FYI, while there are a lot of things I can't do right now that I used to do far better, but the other day I played Lazer Tag with my two oldest sons. Both teams were normal sized about 10 players each, all were kids in their early 20's other than my sons and me being 41. I haven't played lazer tag since I was about 25, and I was good then also getting the highest score the some two times I only ever played lazer tag. This time I did even better. I got the highest score of anyone who played. Not only that, but my score was TRIPLE the score of the second highest which was my middle son who got 2400, while I got 6200.

Tell us again in your bigotry that someone needs to run an 8 min mile in order to own a gun???
When are you people going to learn to think before opening your mouth?

[_Bond James Bond]

LDSfaqs sees himself as Patrick Swayze. In reality he'd be the guy captured and locked up at the drive in five minutes after the first Spetsnaz commandos landed.

And you just demonstrate WHY "gun registration" is immoral and why the right to privacy for the law abiding is important. Also, no.... I don't "flaunt" my gun ownership, etc. So no, I wouldn't be the first locked up. I would be wise and protect my family long term, and only fight when able.

by the way, you are right about one thing in your statement. I am a lot like Patrick Swayze.
We both are martial artists, singers, I could have been an actor myself, been a bouncer, and I would have done exactly what occurred in Red Dawn.

by the way I think anyone who owns a gun should be able to run an 8 minute mile. That's not asking much.

So you're a liberal elitist who thinks only "skinny" people while adults and later in life are the ONLY people qualified to teach and do things, things that they once used to do and be good at? So, no "fat" coaches, Presidents, fitness teachers, martial arts instructors, etc.???

In other words, you're young and ignorant having no clue that LIFE changes people, in ways that they personally would not have done. So, somehow in your mind, fat people all of a sudden become stupid and unskilled???

What about those in a wheelchair? You would ban them from owning a gun?

FYI, while there are a lot of things I can't do right now that I used to do far better, but the other day I played Lazer Tag with my two oldest sons. Both teams were normal sized about 10 players each, all were kids in their early 20's other than my sons and me being 41. I haven't played lazer tag since I was about 25, and I was good then also getting the highest score the some two times I only ever played lazer tag. This time I did even better. I got the highest score of anyone who played. Not only that, but my score was TRIPLE the score of the second highest which was my middle son who got 2400, while I got 6200.

Tell us again in your bigotry that someone needs to run an 8 min mile in order to own a gun???
When are you people going to learn to think before opening your mouth?

So you play Laser Tag against children and feel pleased with yourself when you win. Also you can't run an 8 min mile. That about cover it?

[_Tarski]

by the way, you are right about one thing in your statement. I am a lot like Patrick Swayze.
We both are martial artists, singers, I could have been an actor myself, been a bouncer, and I would have done exactly what occurred in Red Dawn.

ooooh a bouncer? LOL
Do you perhaps sport a mullet?



"I could have been an actor"
Oh, FYI, it's spelled "laser" not "lazer"
Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation

[_Gadianton]

Have you ever looked around you, your city, your state, your nation? The "government" is SMALL in comparison to a nation of armed "individuals".

Under what conditions do you think such an armed response would be appropriate? Where is the line in the sand? What would the government need to do before the armed citizenry would rise up to take back their country, with guns?

[_Res Ipsa]

Have you ever looked around you, your city, your state, your nation? The "government" is SMALL in comparison to a nation of armed "individuals".

Under what conditions do you think such an armed response would be appropriate? Where is the line in the sand? What would the government need to do before the armed citizenry would rise up to take back their country, with guns?

Apparently, it only requires being on the losing side in an election.

[_Res Ipsa]

Human sacrifice at the altar of gun worship. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/0 ... ce-Newtown

[_EAllusion]

Have you ever looked around you, your city, your state, your nation? The "government" is SMALL in comparison to a nation of armed "individuals".

Under what conditions do you think such an armed response would be appropriate? Where is the line in the sand? What would the government need to do before the armed citizenry would rise up to take back their country, with guns?

The interesting thing is that if the government held and exercised the police state powers that ldsfaq's and his fellow-travelers voceriferously favor, I'd have a genuinely hard time begrudging people for violent response back. And that would be regarded as evil terrorism by ldsfaqs deserving of brutal response. So, go figure. You have to read his posts in the context of supporting bombing innocent brown children in foreign lands or assassinating Muslims without due process as patriotism and subsidized health insurance as unconscionable tyranny.

[_ldsfaqs]

So you play Laser Tag against children and feel pleased with yourself when you win. Also you can't run an 8 min mile. That about cover it?

1. 18 or so youth in their early/mid 20's are not "children" per se. The only "children" were my two sons.

2. The whole point of my response was to debunk the "slander" and ignorant bigotry that someone who cannot run an 8 min mile is somehow "unworthy" or "incapable" either mentally or physically of having a firearm. Thus, I demonstrated information that debunked such an utterly childish argument.

Further, these so-called 'children' given my age, weight, and physical shape should have ran circles around me, so the point was, that despite all of my limitations, I ran circles around them in actual mental and physical shooting capability, not just a little but by a lot.

And yes, I was "proud" a little that I still had it. Humble and greatful.

[_krose]

Have you ever looked around you, your city, your state, your nation? The "government" is SMALL in comparison to a nation of armed "individuals".

Under what conditions do you think such an armed response would be appropriate? Where is the line in the sand? What would the government need to do before the armed citizenry would rise up to take back their country, with guns?

The right-wing gun-nut fantasy of one day needing to rise up in an armed rebellion against the "government" (in the form of the police and the US military) is completely insane, and doesn't stand up to minimal scrutiny.

Unless their fantasy scenario includes a president dissolving the other two branches and declaring himself a dictator, with the full support of the military but in opposition to the people (which is never likely to happen), they are talking about overthrowing a democratically elected government.

Also, the very same document that they claim gives them the unspecified right to take up arms against the government, requires that government's officials to put down insurrections and defend against enemies foreign and domestic.

Of course, there have always been a few crazy revolutionaries anxious to use firearms to kill elected leaders (Booth, Hinckley, Oswald...). Looks as if their ranks have grown lately.