No Trump defenders left ...?

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_Kevin Graham
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Re: No Trump defenders left ...?

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Trump promised to replace and repeal the ACA "immediately" and said it would cover "everyone," that it would be "cheaper," and that "nobody" would lose insurance as a result. And here he is, two months in, and we see the "master negotiator" isn't even able to negotiate a deal with those from his own party.

Until recently, only a slight majority of Democrats correctly believed that the ACA increased the number of insured people in America. You are vastly underestimating the public's ability to be ill-informed and fall victim to disinformation where attribution is concerned.


So you're saying many Democrats didn't know the full extent of the ACA's success, therefore the millions of people thrown off their insurance because of the ACHA won't blame Trump? That's two very different levels of ignorance. Anyway, why would they attribute a solid economy to Trump (which you said they'd do) but then attribute their inability to get healthcare to something/someone else?

Trump got it together for the final days of the election in terms of stopping tweeting horrific things. You have to remember that the public's political memory is very shallow and very short.


Depending on what it is. Hillary lost in no small part to stupid crap that had been said about her for literally decades. People will remember what they want to. I just don't see millions of Americans losing their healthcare and then saying, "No worries, I never expected Trump to keep his promise." Trump oversold his plan, and there is no way it can possibly live up to expectations. That reality will crash down at some point, and sooner the better.

If his handlers are able to persuade him to knock it off a few months before the 2018 election and economic numbers remain good, you probably will see his approval numbers strengthen considerably.


Trump doesn't listen to his handlers and I really don't know what evidence exists to suggest otherwise. He does what he wants to do and when he wants to do it, common sense and etiquette be damned. But no doubt his numbers will creep up eventually. I wasn't saying they'd stay below 40 throughout his entire Presidency.
_moksha
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Re: No Trump defenders left ...?

Post by _moksha »

Here is a partial defense by reason of redefinition:

Image
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_MeDotOrg
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Re: No Trump defenders left ...?

Post by _MeDotOrg »

subgenius wrote:won the election
is a better option than Hillary Clinton
Is already effective

What a stirring defense.
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: No Trump defenders left ...?

Post by _Kevin Graham »

MeDotOrg wrote:
subgenius wrote:won the election
is a better option than Hillary Clinton
Is already effective

What a stirring defense.


Effective!

LOL.

At WHAT?
_EAllusion
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Re: No Trump defenders left ...?

Post by _EAllusion »

Kevin Graham wrote:So you're saying many Democrats didn't know the full extent of the ACA's success, therefore the millions of people thrown off their insurance because of the ACHA won't blame Trump? That's two very different levels of ignorance. Anyway, why would they attribute a solid economy to Trump (which you said they'd do) but then attribute their inability to get healthcare to something/someone else?


People whose political opinions are fluid have a long established habit of attributing the general conditions around them, primarily economic, to the presidential incumbent. They do this regardless of whether it makes any actual sense to make that attribution. It's not a deep economic analysis. It's just, "Things are good. President X is doing well." Just by knowing GDP growth numbers and who is in charge (and for how long), you can make disturbingly accurate predictions about how the country will vote.

On the other hand, what you are talking about is drawing attribution of consequences to specific policies. I bring up how not even many Democrats understood what the ACA did on a basic level years after it passed to illustrate how deep public ignorance can be and therefore how vulnerable it is to misinformation. Give the right-wing propaganda machine a chance to spin the subject before you assume anyone whose health-care situation is worse off due to the AHCA will automatically attribute it to the passing of AHCA. Maybe most of 'em will be successfully persuaded that it's Obama's fault. I don't know how you can watch propaganda work again and again and assume that it won't work this time. Of course that's a possibility.

Depending on what it is. Hillary lost in no small part to stupid crap that had been said about her for literally decades.


Her favorability numbers were great 2 years outside of the election. She would've easily won in 2008 had Obama not got the nomination. Hillary probably would win right now in a re-do election. That's because political memory is short. Most of the daily nonsense that is driving Trump's numbers down right now will be forgotten in a few months if he could just knock it off for a little while.

Trump doesn't listen to his handlers and I really don't know what evidence exists to suggest otherwise. He does what he wants to do and when he wants to do it, common sense and etiquette be damned. But no doubt his numbers will creep up eventually. I wasn't saying they'd stay below 40 throughout his entire Presidency.


Trump did listen to his handlers in the last part of the election and laid low relative to the previous period. It was one of the factors that probably put him over the hump. Trump's pseudo-State of the Union address that got orgasmic praise from the press was Trump listening to his handlers and just reading the speech off the teleprompter. He does sometimes listen. Don't undersell the possibility he might do so again when an election is on the line. As long as the fundamentals favor him, his favorability can easily follow right behind.

The bad scenario for Trump/Republicans is the economy tanking 6 months before 2018 or 2020. Though if this happens in 2018, it should be on the upswing in 2020 and that probably will seal a Trump reelection assuming he isn't impeached or something first.
_Philo Sofee
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Re: No Trump defenders left ...?

Post by _Philo Sofee »

subgenius wrote:
Chap wrote:
I mean, at least he .... what?

won the election
is a better option than Hillary Clinton
Is already effective


And you think this is good for America in what way?
Already effective at WHAT?
Dr CamNC4Me
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_Chap
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Re: No Trump defenders left ...?

Post by _Chap »

subgenius wrote:
Chap wrote:
I mean, at least he .... what?


won the election


Oh, I do so agree. Winning the election is undoubtedly his greatest achievement so far.

Especially since he managed to win while labouring under the unfair handicap of getting three million votes less than his opponent. However, thanks to the electoral college, he managed to ensure that mob rule did not prevail, and America got the president that a minority of voters for the two candidates preferred.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Doctor Steuss
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Re: No Trump defenders left ...?

Post by _Doctor Steuss »

Kevin Graham wrote:Effective!

LOL.

At WHAT?

Golf.
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
_Choyo Chagas
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Re: No Trump defenders left ...?

Post by _Choyo Chagas »

Chap wrote:... thanks to the electoral college, he managed to ensure that mob rule did not prevail, and America got the president that a minority of voters for the two candidates preferred.

who i am to criticize the mercan votin sys - but it is a shame exemplar of democracy
... using hollerith cards ...
Choyo Chagas is Chairman of the Big Four, the ruler of the planet from "The Bull's Hour" ( Russian: Час Быка), a social science fiction novel written by Soviet author and paleontologist Ivan Yefremov in 1968.
Six months after its publication Soviet authorities banned the book and attempted to remove it from libraries and bookshops.
_The CCC
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Re: No Trump defenders left ...?

Post by _The CCC »

A strong Drumpf supporting dad no longer. A good thing, but a little late I'd say.
SEE http://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/i-belie ... president/
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