Life as an Agnostic

[_Quasimodo]

I recommend reading Epicurus and even Ecclesiastes.

Congratulations. You are a grown up. You are the human layer between your children and their future state of non-being and you have an awareness of that. Do you have the tools and the guidance and the temperament to help them? It doesn't matter because we're already here. If you don't help them, others will or no one will. Will you? How? It is incredibly hard to come up with good answers.

I always struggle with the pain of losing someone because I don't want to see them suffer or their lives end. I will miss them, sometimes with a physical ache. It's part of the cost of being, not just alive, but aware.

I recommend reading. Everything. All subjects.

And, of course, vintage issues of Mad Magazine. ;)

Hi Blixa! How are you doing?

[_krose]

For me the choice became rather obvious. Choose a creator/God. I flirted with agnosticism [...]

How do you choose to believe or disbelieve?

I, myself, never actively chose to stop believing in gods and prophets and an afterlife filled with love and family and eternal orgasms. The conscious decision I made was to act on my disbelief: to 'come out' and openly leave the church. The disbelief itself happened gradually over a long period of time, based on evidence, reading and experiences.

Yes, I could choose to go back to the fold and go through all the motions of belief, but it would just be pretending without some sort of convincing 'road to Damascus' type of experience.

[_sock puppet]

You are the human layer between your children and their future state of non-being and you have an awareness of that. Do you have the tools and the guidance and the temperament to help them? It doesn't matter because we're already here. If you don't help them, others will or no one will. Will you? How? It is incredibly hard to come up with good answers.

I think that perfectly good answers come from asking those questions: Will you? How?

I always struggle with the pain of losing someone because I don't want to see them suffer or their lives end. I will miss them, sometimes with a physical ache. It's part of the cost of being, not just alive, but aware.

Succinct and spot on.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

If you fear eternity of non-existence after death, remember that you have already survived it once.

- Doc

[_DoubtingThomas]

None of us knows whether there is some sort of afterlife or not.

True, but for me that is the problem.

They are uncomfortable being in a huge grey area and need to pick a side, make some kind of final decision. But the mystery of not knowing is more interesting I think. In my view the idea of an afterlife is no more supernatural, miraculous, or unlikely than our existence in the first place. About the most boring idea to me is the thought that we are literally just a chemical accident floating out in space alone. Imagine if we are literally the only intelligent species in existence anywhere? This would be simultaneously sad and hilarious. One thing I'll agree with TBMs about though is that if there isn't an afterlife, it's all pointless. In which case, who cares about what could have been or whether it all ends tomorrow for that matter.

I am in the grey area.

Some of the NDE stories are quite compelling.

I was a fan of NDE stories, I even have a book. I no longer see them as compelling.

In which case, who cares about what could have been or whether it all ends tomorrow for that matter.

When I die my body will probably end up in a Cryopreservation tank, not in a grave. I know Cryonics is just science fiction speculation, but I have no other option. Jesus Christ is less likely to revive me.

[_DoubtingThomas]

That's the gift of agnosticism.

You get to do you, how you see fit. You get to own your behavior. You to regard your time on earth how you want.

- Doc

Thanks. For me agnosticism is not the the Straight and Narrow easy path, but I am going to have to train my own mind to see it as a gift.

[_DoubtingThomas]

I recommend reading Epicurus and even Ecclesiastes.

Sound boring ;). But will give them a try.

[_DoubtingThomas]

For me, not having to worry about what an imaginary God wanted, allowed me to take responsibility for my own actions and decisions. I have no uncertainty about where I stand with a God or what He wants me to do.

It's actually quite liberating.

Regarding "Families are Forever". I do things with my family as if this life is all there is, if, it turns out, there is actually some future where I get to be with them again, so much the better, but I refuse to believe in a God who would separate loved ones for eternity based on decisions made in a 50-70 year span.

Interesting perspective. I hope I see it that way someday.

[_DoubtingThomas]

I always struggle with the pain of losing someone because I don't want to see them suffer or their lives end. I will miss them, sometimes with a physical ache. It's part of the cost of being, not just alive, but aware.

I think it is going to take some time for me to value atheism/agnosticism, but thanks for the words.

[Guest]

DT, we've had our disagreements here, but I share your fears. More than you know. I have struggled with it for years. I'm 60 now and just think that I have to do as much as I can with the time I have left. Enjoy every day. It never gets easier, at least not for me it hasn't. I just wake up everyday thankful I'm still here and then try and have a good day. Work on the things important to me. You can't get back the past.

v. another heart breaks

We see the writing on the wall
as it cracks and crumbles,
finally destined to fall
while on its ruins we stumble.

The words long gone
in prayers that have ascended,
the rubble that some look upon
only lives that have ended.

Stolen Moments
As we wait,
Bliss and torment
Chance and fate.

Another heart breaks
Another heart breaks

We see shadows of paradise
but we are covered in sin,
forcing some to think twice
about what lies within.

Stolen moments
As we wait,
Bliss and torment
Chance and fate.

Left with hope
As we wait,
Forced to cope
In memories wake.

Another heart Breaks.
Another heart Breaks.


iv. cruxes

All around me the nitty gritty
aspires to settle within me:
the heart of the matter, meat and potatoes,
and the cold hard facts that be.

Come to the crossroads
lay down your heavy load,
the final turning point
of another cosmic flip of the coin.

Riding on a speeding train;
trapped inside a revolving door,
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain
Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world
can change your direction,
One false step where events converge
may alter your perception.

All around me the talking heads
tell me that life is screwed
better that than the walking dead
Who only live to make a buck

Here at the crossroads
the truth just may be told
One moment caught in crux
Synchronicity or maybe just blind luck.

Pushed ahead by the maddening crowd
To the point of no return,
With nothing left but to cry out loud.
Left behind by these internal voices
With nothing left but to make these choices
And to gather the strength to make that turn

Riding on a speeding train;
trapped inside a revolving door,
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain
Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world
can change your direction,
One false step where paths converge
may alter your perception.

(From Dreamsongs: A Collection of Lyrical Ballads, viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41132)

I got into poetry in the late 80's and writing things down seemed to help. It can be very cathartic. Make your life count HERE and NOW. I think that is the key to overcoming our fears. But I'm still working on mine, so what the “F” do I know?