MG & JLHPROF: From Whence Come Spiritual Experiences?

[_zerinus]

I dare say that there are millions of people who firmly believed at one time that they had the witness of the Holy Ghost, and now know that it was just another false belief.

You are wasting your time and everybody else’s time. You are saying that just because some people can be misled into into believing that they have received the witness of the Holy Ghost when they haven’t, therefore the real thing cannot exist. That is simply bad logic, and therefore a false statement to make.

[_DoubtingThomas]

The witness of the Holy Ghost is something that has to be experienced.

Sure. So feeling the spirit of Christmas means Santa Claus exists?

[_DoubtingThomas]

therefore the real thing cannot exist

He is not saying the real thing cannot exists, it is possible. However, there is no reason to believe it exists just like there is no reason to believe in Father Christmas.

[_DrW]

I dare say that there are millions of people who firmly believed at one time that they had the witness of the Holy Ghost, and now know that it was just another false belief.

You are wasting your time and everybody else’s time. You are saying that just because some people can be misled into into believing that they have received the witness of the Holy Ghost when they haven’t, therefore the real thing cannot exist. That is simply bad logic, and therefore a false statement to make.

That is not at all what I am saying. You need to read more carefully.

What I am saying is that one has essentially two choices when considering the genesis and source of transcendent experiences.

1. They can chose to believe, based on no evidence whatsoever, that an undetectable Holy Ghost takes the time and effort to somehow magically transmit to their mind an assurance and belief that, among all of the thousands of gods humankind has come up with, the supernatural trinity comprised of a supreme god, his son (who he sacrificed but who magically came back to life anyway), and a holy ghost itself not only exist, as described in an ancient book of legends, but has their best interest at heart and will bless them when requested to do so, so long as they do what a group of old white men tell them to do.


2. Or, they can understand that these experiences are a useful by-product of millions of years of evolution and a consequence of the human brain's extraordinary ability to interpret unusual or poorly controlled modes of operation* as experiences and thoughts superseding the normal.

Recall Professor Grafman's comment upthread that a human brain will take whatever stimuli it receives and attempt to create a construct (model, story, belief) to account for these stimuli. This includes stimuli from other parts of the brain as well as from chemicals that mimic neurotransmitters and show up at receptors where they are not normally intended to be.

This view of the transcendent is supported by hundreds of controlled experiments and observations in humans as they experience these events, both endogenous and externally induced, and as they adapt to their ability to do so.

You, zerinus, appear to be firmly in the *1* camp, along with MG and JLHPROF.

_______________________

*The description of altered or 'poorly controlled modes of operation' is intended to convey the fact that temporal lobe seizures, chemical hallucinogens such as DMT, LSD, the harmalines, etc. and electromagnetic stimuli of the brain all result in changes in neuronal firing patters in the brain that are not under normal physiological control (or in homeostasis).

One implication of these altered states is that neural connections or circuits not normally activated are now called, or forced, into play, while others may be suppressed.

Thus, brain modules that do not normally communicate with one another may well be doing so, and normal (especially inhibitory) communication or firing may be suppressed. One can imagine this unusual cross module communication as being analogous to those in synesthesia, wherein the senses become interactive - numbers become associated with colors or geometric shapes, and sounds may evoke visual sensations.

[_zerinus]

That is not at all what I am saying. You need to read more carefully.

* * *

No need to read anything. Your argument is nonsensical, and there is nothing more to add.

[_Tator]

I screwed up this post, sorry.

[_DrW]

That is not at all what I am saying. You need to read more carefully.

* * *

No need to read anything. Your argument is nonsensical, and there is nothing more to add.

Yet again, and as always, you provide no evidence to back up your position. You make only bald assertions and statements of unfounded belief.

The choice "1" crowd can only hope that MG or JLHPROF might do a bit better.

[_Lemmie]

That is not at all what I am saying. You need to read more carefully.

No need to read anything.

After refusing to read anything about DrW's argument, zerinus still manages to conclude:

Your argument is nonsensical

That really does explain your approach, zerinus. Completely. It's unfortunate that you are so unwilling to use the brain your god gave you, if for no other reason than to actually learn what it is that you are rejecting so that you don't have to engage in the sin of dishonesty in your discussions.

[_cwald]

The choice "1" crowd can only hope that MG or JLHPROF might do a bit better.

I'm on pins and needles.

[_Choyo Chagas]

The witness of the Holy Ghost is something that has to be experienced.

Sure. So feeling the spirit of Christmas means Santa Claus exists?

especially in europe, where the day of santa claus is 06.dec (the nameday of nicholas) ?
???