US Citizens Detained for Speaking Spanish

[_Gunnar]

Whether U.S. citizens or not, there is no justification for detaining someone merely because you heard them speaking a language other than English. No one need take any offense because I occasionally speak Danish to my new Danish son-in-law (though he is fluent in English as well) or Norwegian to my Norwegian relatives when they come here for a visit. I live in a small city in California that is quite culturally mixed, including many Hispanics, Asians and East Indians. I speak a little Spanish myself, and my daughter is fluent in the language. I have very rarely (if ever) seen anyone around here raise a suspicious eyebrow or get offended merely because they hear people speaking a language other than English to each other--nor should they.

How would you feel, subby, if someone detained you merely for speaking English while visiting some other country?

[_MeDotOrg]

So speaking Spanish is not a crime, but probable cause of a crime?

[_moksha]

"I'm 'resting you on count a you speakin' Mexican."
-- Animatronic Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Fantasyland

[_subgenius]

Lawful detainment by its definition is not a "taking away if rights" in the vein you intend.

LOL Your trollish way of admitting I am right.

but you are not right, you are just misleading...and why do you always have to "think" things always must have a hidden meaning?...is a concept of "the veil" that deeply ingrained?

Given where the event occurred and the authority afforded to Customs Officers the presence of "probable cause" is arguably fulfilled (a reasonable belief, based on the circumstances, that an immigration violation or crime has likely occurred).

How so? The officer only said as far as we know that the only reason he stopped them is that they were speaking Spanish. How does that meet the probable cause that a immigration violation occurred?

Not accurate and again misleading on your part. That is not "the only reason" and you are misquoting - it was because speaking Spanish in that area was "very unheard of up here". Hearing Spanish being spoken in Cancun is a reasonable expectation, but hearing Spanish being spoken in Reykjavik would be a reasonable curiosity. And while you may want to argue for the frequency of hearing Spanish being spoken in that time and place of Montana, you know that it is misleading to say "only because they were speaking Spanish" (its like saying that those guys in Fredricksburg were only carrying tiki torches).

So, while you may want to believe otherwise the customs officer only has to establish that he had a reasonable belief based on the circumstances...and while I must admit that all the circumstances are not known, imho enough cause is there....consider that far less is used by the authorities to stop your vehicle at a "DUI checkpoint" whereas you are detained and required to provide documents, simply for driving a car.

[_Themis]

Not accurate and again misleading on your part. That is not "the only reason" and you are misquoting - it was because speaking Spanish in that area was "very unheard of up here". Hearing Spanish being spoken in Cancun is a reasonable expectation, but hearing Spanish being spoken in Reykjavik would be a reasonable curiosity. And while you may want to argue for the frequency of hearing Spanish being spoken in that time and place of Montana, you know that it is misleading to say "only because they were speaking Spanish" (its like saying that those guys in Fredricksburg were only carrying tiki torches).

So, while you may want to believe otherwise the customs officer only has to establish that he had a reasonable belief based on the circumstances...and while I must admit that all the circumstances are not known, imho enough cause is there....consider that far less is used by the authorities to stop your vehicle at a "DUI checkpoint" whereas you are detained and required to provide documents, simply for driving a car.

How does speaking Spanish in an area where most people speak English meet the criteria of reasonable grounds a immigration violation is taking place? You keep avoiding this question. Checkpoints are different. They do not target any specific individual. Hawkeye already dealt with this.

[_subgenius]

How does speaking Spanish in an area where most people speak English meet the criteria of reasonable grounds a immigration violation is taking place?

As i said, many facts are unknown which should be considered when arguing this situation, let alone when making condemnations based upon this situation. But as the agent stated, it was an activity that was highly unusual for that area...i think i answered this appropriately in the previous post, and clearly you do not agree, so there is that. Good thing our system has these things called "judges" which serve to interpret the application of law....perhaps we are wise to see how this sorts out from that position...with facts and all.

But to me, the known circumstances still provide cause for a reasonable suspicion to make an inquiry.

You keep avoiding this question. Checkpoints are different. They do not target any specific individual.

Um, these ladies were no more specifically targeted than would be a driver at a DUI checkpoint with slurred speech....yet the slurred speech is probable cause for a sobriety test, and if driver had not been drinking and the sobriety test is passed it is hardly cause to stomp around asking for a lawyer claiming civil rights have been violated....let alone does it merit a newspaper article (because there is no political traction there).

Hawkeye already dealt with this.

how? by allegedly telling us a story told to him by a Facebook comrade who coincidentally lives in that area? please.

[_Hawkeye]

how? by allegedly telling us a story told to him by a Facebook comrade who coincidentally lives in that area? please.

Did I only "allegedly" tell a story? No, I shared testimony from a friend who lives there. I also backed it up with census data proving this ICE agent is a moron who is just making crap up.

[_subgenius]

Did I only "allegedly" tell a story? No, I shared testimony from a friend who lives there.

testimony?
good lawd you desperate.

I also backed it up with census data proving this ICE agent is a moron who is just making crap up.

census databacked up what? you provided data that less than 4% of Montana's population is Hispanic and yet that actually (as in within the current realm of reality) supports the officer's claim for the rare occurrence.
Especially when more relevant facts are considered...The city of Havre has less than the state average of Hispanic population...about 2.5%...or maybe to you and your comrades that equates to Brown People Everywhere!
But I get it, you think you are more better correct when you type 40,000 than if you actually typed 245...see the first number makes you feel like you know what you're talking about whereas the latter number makes you look ignorant.

[_Themis]

As i said, many facts are unknown which should be considered when arguing this situation, let alone when making condemnations based upon this situation. But as the agent stated, it was an activity that was highly unusual for that area...i think i answered this appropriately in the previous post, and clearly you do not agree, so there is that. Good thing our system has these things called "judges" which serve to interpret the application of law....perhaps we are wise to see how this sorts out from that position...with facts and all.

But to me, the known circumstances still provide cause for a reasonable suspicion to make an inquiry.

All we are looking at is what we know which is only this factor of speaking Spanish. If other factors come forward we can discuss them then. I disagree that it is an unusual activity in Montana. Latino population is in the 10's of thousands in a state with only 1 million people. It's an activity that happens there all the time in many languages. Especially at gas stations where people traveling stop all the time.

Now how does an unusual activity of speaking Spanish, which it really is not, provide evidence that a criminal violation has taken place? You have avoided this question.

Um, these ladies were no more specifically targeted than would be a driver at a DUI checkpoint with slurred speech....yet the slurred speech is probable cause for a sobriety test, and if driver had not been drinking and the sobriety test is passed it is hardly cause to stomp around asking for a lawyer claiming civil rights have been violated....let alone does it merit a newspaper article (because there is no political traction there).

They were specifically targeted. A check points stops everyone. Very different and I think you know that.

how? by allegedly telling us a story told to him by a Facebook comrade who coincidentally lives in that area? please.

He provided evidence showing that check stops are different then specifically detaining someone. These women were minding their own business doing nothing wrong. Speaking Spanish is not uncommon even in Montana and does not provide any evidence that they are not American or in the US illegally. This is why I keep asking you how it can be evidence of criminal activity.

[_ajax18]

What language do most illegal immigrants speak? It's not Danish. Speaking Spanish should sound as suspicious to a border patrol officer as wearing a turban into an airport security line.

Hawkeye had no problem with the IRS targeting people just for belonging to the Tea Party and espousing a political ideology of smaller government and lower taxes.

That's kind of funny because most notable tax cheats i.e. Al Sharpton, Melissa Harris Perry, Charlie Rangel, are all liberal Democrats.