Dying For Montenegro

[_Themis]

Getting warmer, but still avoiding the OP...

You are avoiding that Montenegro helped the US before they joined NATO.

[_Maksutov]

Treaties are ratified by Congress and approved by the President as I recall. Go whine to them.

[Guest]

Good God. The answer is that we should not honor our commitments? Really?

[_Themis]

This relationship is absurd.

That's what Putin wants you to believe. Putin also wants you to believe NATO should be scrapped which Trump is promoting for him.

They have made commitments which they clearly are not capable of living up to.

What specific commitments have they made and why could they not live up to them?

[Guest]

Good God. The answer is that we should not honor our agreements? Really?

The Alpha Thug of the GI've Oral to Putin Party has decreed it. The present administration isn't likely to recognize any past American government outside of the CSA. We don't need no stinkin' treaties!

[_Water Dog]

Everybody seems intent to avoid the question. Are you all uncomfortable saying the words, "yes, I would send my son to die for Montenegro!?" I want to hear the words. I didn't say that we shouldn't honor our agreements. I'm asking about the the spirit of the law here, not the letter. If the spirit is bad, perhaps that law should be changed. I want to know if you really believe in it, or if you're just a bunch of hypocrites as I suspect.

[Guest]

Everybody seems intent to avoid the question. Are you all uncomfortable saying the words, "yes, I would send my son to die for Montenegro!?" I want to hear the words. I didn't say that we shouldn't honor our agreements. I'm asking about the the spirit of the law here, not the letter. If the spirit is bad, perhaps that law should be changed. I want to know if you really believe in it, or if you're just a bunch of hypocrites as I suspect.

I'm uncomfortable with my son dying in any war that I don't think is justified. And we've had a few. It hasn't been a real world test since our reliance on volunteers. If you want to change the process of creating and enforcing treaties you have a lot of fundamental work to do. And there is a lot that is classified in our treaties that we don't really even know much of. We have to rely almost entirely on representatives and the Chief Executive. If they're fools or corrupt we are vulnerable.

America First was an organization and a slogan to prevent the US from entering World War 2. A lot of Americans refused to die for foreign Jews and formed "shirt" organizations, worked with the Nazis and the German American Bund and other groups. Of course there was a lot more at stake than the persecutions of the Jews but the antiSemites' bigotry kept them from seeing a bigger picture.

If Montenegro isn't worth American lives we should not have made that treaty in the first place. Don't blame Montenegro. If you can't give them equal protection then you're like a cop who only protects the powerful and popular and abuses and neglects the rest.

[Guest]

Montenegro is a small country in a critically strategic place with the best harbor on the Adriatic sea (Bay of Kotor). It's worth protecting for multiple logistic reasons.

Just saying.

ETA: That's the same reason Great Britain still holds Gibraltar.

[_Maksutov]

Do you expect your fellow American to die for Texas?

[_Quasimodo]

Do you expect your fellow American to die for Texas?

Personally, I would have to give that some serious thought.