Cory Booker (D) - Presidential Hopeful, Sexual Assault

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Cory Booker (D) - Presidential Hopeful, Sexual Assault

Post by _Themis »

ajax18 wrote:Kavanaugh was 17 years old. How does this incident from many decades ago define who he is now as an adult and potential Supreme court nominee?


So, many jobs one would be disqualified for with this kind of information. If this accusation is true then he is certainly not fit for this job, and since he is accused it should be investigated before he is voted into the supreme court.

It's still just an allegation. How accurate is eye witness testimony especially after decades of time has passed? Why not just admit you want someone who is pro choice on abortion?


You want him because you believe he will strike down abortion rights, but most are just arguing the obvious that this accusation should be investigated first.
42
_honorentheos
_Emeritus
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 am

Re: Cory Booker (D) - Presidential Hopeful, Sexual Assault

Post by _honorentheos »

I read about the Cory Booker incident yesterday in a suggested headline from the Washington Post:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... 100244f074

He wrote about the incident while in college for the college paper. He chose to write about it because of ongoing issues with men viewing sex as a game to be secured through luck, guile, strategy or coercion that left the women as victims. He comments he initially balked at writing about his own experience where he didn't immediately take the physical cue and "stole second", and that resistance to talk about his own experience convinced him he needed to expose it himself. You can read the column for yourselves here: https://stanforddailyarchive.com/cgi-bi ... 19-01.2.16

The incident he described occurred when he was 15 on New Years Eve. He describes leaning in for a hug at midnight and instead she goes for the kiss, apparently a passionate one. They make out, he makes his way toward her breast, she swats his hand, he works his way back again and she doesn't stop him that time. He describes their "fumbling" as continuing for a little longer and that was a far as they went. He then says they didn't develop a relationship but did become friends. Later when discussing that night she said she had liked him a lot but just wanted to be friends, but had been really drunk so she didn't really know what she was doing.

If you read the column, you see he chose to expose his story because, after two years as a peer councilor hearing real world accounts and the consequences from the victims of sexual assaults on campus, he felt obligated to talk about it. And he didn't want to be a hypocrit when saying the way men talk and think about sex as sport is a very serious part of the problem. He acknowledges that it isn't simple, there wasn't a magic bullet that could make everything right, and he didn't have any solutions to offer.

That's what self-knowledge and maturity looks like, in my opinion. I want people who can do that in leadership positions, who take ownership of their wrongs, make corrections, and lead with this knowledge.

Now, in Kavanaugh's case we have accusations that he is denying but deserve to be heard out before the man takes an office held for life with as much or more power shared between nine people as is held by the President or shared by the members of Congress. It's an accussation he denies. In it, he is described as acting in a way that made the young woman involved fear for her life, that he might suffocate her to keep her quiet while he attempted to take her clothes off. She claims to have escaped by luck as his friend jumping in, knocking them off of the bed which allowed her to get away and lock herself in the bathroom.

If the allegations prove to have a reasonable grounding in probability, it means Kavanaugh has never taken ownership, and will be a sitting Supreme Court justice who views that kind of behavior as apparently excusable. Negligently endangering a person to take something from them by force that you want...that's a serious accusation. Lying about it would be even more morally bankrupt.

These aren't comparable in any way, Cam. And I suspect you know that.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_honorentheos
_Emeritus
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 am

Re: Cory Booker (D) - Presidential Hopeful, Sexual Assault

Post by _honorentheos »

ajax18 wrote:Kavanaugh was 17 years old. How does this incident from many decades ago define who he is now as an adult and potential Supreme court nominee?

The allegation is serious enough, and supported enough, to deserve examination. It doesn't mean he did it, and if he didn't do it then it clearly has no bearing on his character as an adult.

However, if he DID do it and is lying about it today, it says more than enough about the nature of his character as an adult to disqualify him from serving as one of the nine justices on the Supreme Court.

When Al Franken was exposed and booted, he went over the roller coaster of responses that included deflection of responsibility to dismissal of the seriousness of what happened to ultimately accepting the outrage and bowing out. The key point throughout was he always seemed to make it about him, never stopping to acknowledge that regardless of his prerogative the woman being forcefully kissed and photographed being comically groped in an armored vest was still being reduced to an object. Her perspective, her emotional responses were constantly being dismissed because his actions were just jokes to Franken.

There is something to be learned in seeing that, ajax.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: Cory Booker (D) - Presidential Hopeful, Sexual Assault

Post by _subgenius »

honorentheos wrote:
ajax18 wrote:Kavanaugh was 17 years old. How does this incident from many decades ago define who he is now as an adult and potential Supreme court nominee?

The allegation is serious enough, and supported enough,...

supported enough?
please explain the facts and evidence that tipped the scale for you.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_honorentheos
_Emeritus
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 am

Re: Cory Booker (D) - Presidential Hopeful, Sexual Assault

Post by _honorentheos »

subgenius wrote:
honorentheos wrote:The allegation is serious enough, and supported enough,...

supported enough?
please explain the facts and evidence that tipped the scale for you.

To justify hearing her out? Coming forward with her therapist supporting her having discussed the assault years before. It doesn't mean he did it, but it crosses the threshold of looking into the accusation before we make him one of the most powerful people in the world for life.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: Cory Booker (D) - Presidential Hopeful, Sexual Assault

Post by _subgenius »

honorentheos wrote:
subgenius wrote:supported enough?
please explain the facts and evidence that tipped the scale for you.

To justify hearing her out? Coming forward with her therapist supporting her having discussed the assault years before. It doesn't mean he did it, but it crosses the threshold of looking into the accusation before we make him one of the most powerful people in the world for life.

Yeah, that's hardly qualified for the exclamation of "supported enough".
Basically your "threshold" is nothing more than *did the allegation come from a Democrat?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: Cory Booker (D) - Presidential Hopeful, Sexual Assault

Post by _subgenius »

honorentheos wrote:
subgenius wrote:supported enough?
please explain the facts and evidence that tipped the scale for you.

To justify hearing her out? Coming forward with her therapist supporting her having discussed the assault years before. It doesn't mean he did it, but it crosses the threshold of looking into the accusation before we make him one of the most powerful people in the world for life.

Yeah, that's hardly qualified for the exclamation of "supported enough".
Basically your "threshold" is nothing more than *did the allegation come from a Democrat?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_honorentheos
_Emeritus
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 am

Re: Cory Booker (D) - Presidential Hopeful, Sexual Assault

Post by _honorentheos »

subgenius wrote:Yeah, that's hardly qualified for the exclamation of "supported enough".
Basically your "threshold" is nothing more than *did the allegation come from a Democrat?

Again, she has come forward putting her personal reputation on the line, has therapy session records that support her claim of having been the victim of sexual assault, and there is no obvious reason to dismiss it. You may think that is arbitrary but that's understandable given political allegiance is your only moral compass so projecting this onto others is a given.

If you do want to talk about it in terms of politics, Republicans blowing off her accusations in the lead up to a midterm where female support has been eroding would be disastrous and they seem to know that. It seems they also realize that a threshold has been crossed where the accusations can't just be dismissed as coming from some crank with an ax to grind.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
Posts: 21663
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: Cory Booker (D) - Presidential Hopeful, Sexual Assault

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Honor,

It's as if nothing we post has any impact on your reality. Nothing, and I can't wrap my mind around why you're so in the tank with this woman. It's damned bizarre.

The timing is transparent:

The week prior to Brett Kavanaugh committee vote

The outlet is transparent:

Senator Feinstein through a ‘resistance’ apparatus (Katz and fellow Democrat operatives)

The accuser is transparent:

A far Leftist California professor, anti-Trump ‘resistance activist’

The accusation is transparent:

35-year-old harassment claim/accusation, from high school intended to activate the #metoo activists against a then 17-year-old kid.

The motive is transparent:

Block the Supreme Court nomination of Justice Kavanaugh.

After carefully deleting her social media profile, after carefully selecting left-wing attorney Debra Katz to represent her political interests, after carefully scripting some dubious and sketchy supportive material including a lie-detector test and vague notes from a 2012 couples-therapy session, the 51-year-old academic psychologist steps forward.

And if you don't think Ms. Ford or her lawyer aren't radicals then all you need to do is see this:

https://globalnewshunt.com/politics/chr ... est-video/

Image

This, of course, is a white female cultural appropriate of the Black Resistance movement symbol which is socialist.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_honorentheos
_Emeritus
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 am

Re: Cory Booker (D) - Presidential Hopeful, Sexual Assault

Post by _honorentheos »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Honor,

It's as if nothing we post has any impact on your reality. Nothing, and I can't wrap my mind around why you're so in the tank with this woman. It's ____ bizarre.

You don't think that the matter deserves a hearing in the Senate? That is bizarre to me.

by the way - I think it's a bit of a compliment that the outlandish posting on the subject appears to you to not impact my reality. Thank you. I don't assume he's guilty nor am I "in the tank with this woman" (<WTF?), but it deserves more than to be dismissed. Outside of that, it's a lot of speculation with people revealing more about themselves than saying anything meaningful about either Ford or Kavanaugh. If you want to claim it's all politics, two words: Merrick Garland.

To clarify, Feinstein didn't make this public until it was forced by a report in the Intercept making it public she had a letter she refused to share even with other Democrats as the author (Ford) was not willing to go public with the accusations at the time over the concern of what would follow.

https://theintercept.com/2018/09/12/bre ... feinstein/

Feinstein made a statement about the letter's reality and her respecting the wishes of the author though it had been shared with federal investigators. Then the NYT reported it included an accusation of sexual misconduct that raised the heat to the point it was clear to Ford she no longer had a say in going public with the content once the New Yorker published the contents of the letter without her name, but she was getting contacted by reporters showing it was only a matter of time.

Up until she put her name to it I would have agreed it didn't deserve consideration or influence in Kavanaugh's nomination. The story unfolded as it did because reporters will be reporters and ultimately the entire thing was opened up to where we are today. I don't see how a reasonable person would say we aren't at a point that the Senate should have a hearing with direct questioning of Kavanaugh and Ford before he could be confirmed.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Post Reply