About 40% Of Mormons Are Christian Nationalists

[Kishkumen]

Meh. I think this kind of thing is a little overhyped. Frankly, I am surprised that the number is so low, given the fact that the Book of Mormon is so obviously an American Christian document that basically ties the health of any nation on this continent to its Christian faithfulness. The real crazies are the Dominionists and the Q-nuts. I am increasingly convinced that DezNat is mostly a tiny collection of online trolls and tasteless performance artists.

I am halfway convinced that the person who is at the helm of PRRI is seriously motivated to sell his own books that look like scaremongering against Christians in this country. Are there frightening kooks? Yes. But they are not all Christians. And I am heartened by the knowledge that most people back away from the crazier and more extreme positions.

Let me attempt to take the fear out of this:

It is easy to make people disturbed by abortion because the death of a child is almost universally abhorred, and Christianity has preached against infanticide since the first century CE.

Although this country was not founded as a Christian nation, stricto sensu, it emerged out of a broadly Western Christian civilization, and most people have no clue what that really means or entails. Thomas Jefferson editing the miracles out of the Bible does not change the intellectual and spiritual origins of European civilization. Instead, it is a manifestation of the same.

It would be more productive to make better, more thoughtful Christians out of the Christians in our midst than to fight against Christianity.

Maybe if the states did enshrine particular sects as the official church of Alabama, for example, then that church could siphon off some of the people who join kooky Q-conspiracy groups for lack of any robust religious education in their lives. I mean, England has a state church and they have far fewer people at church than we do. Here religion is popular because so many churches offer entertainment somewhere on a continuum between an orgy and a rock concert, while pouring sentimentality and New Thought nonsense in their heads.

Immigrants do change the culture. The real problem is that people fear this reality instead of embracing it. How do we help people embrace it? Not by assuming that everyone who sees what happens with immigration is necessarily hopelessly dead set against it for all time.

People on the left are also extreme. I may find them less scary, but they get whipped up into a frenzy when, horror of horrors, someone says a prayer at a public function or a nativity scene is set in a public space. Let's face it: this country definitely does have a national mythology of which Christianity is a huge part, but I wouldn't exactly equate the fairytales about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the nativity with Christianity in the narrow sense. They are hazily Christian myths that belong very much in our consumer capitalist stew.

And so, it is completely absurd to imagine artificially shoehorning equal consideration of all mythologies into a culture that evolved organically over a handful of millennia, not to mention saying we don't get to have myths, which is impossible anyway. Christianity is a Hellenized, nominally Jewish cult that was enforced by Roman imperial power and its successor states. Like it or not, Christian civilization is at the root of practically everything we do in our culture. Railing against it is almost as extreme as panicking over threats to Christian normativity.

I identify as civilizationally Christian, at the very least. I also identify as a civic nationalist, as I have said before on another part of this board. That does not make me a "Christian nationalist," of course, in the way this PRRI survey is framing it, but I have real concerns about the methodology being employed here. Let me make up a "non-partisan" surveying group with a PBS-looking acronym and publish some level-headed-seeming results to my survey that shows what I want to show.

Yeah, I am a little suspicious.

[huckelberry]

Meh. I think this kind of thing is a little overhyped. Frankly, I am surprised that the number is so low, given the fact that the Book of Mormon is so obviously an American Christian document that basically ties the health of any nation on this continent to its Christian faithfulness. The real crazies are the Dominionists and the Q-nuts. I am increasingly convinced that DezNat is mostly a tiny collection of online trolls and tasteless performance artists.

I.......

Christian civilization is at the root of practically everything we do in our culture. Railing against it is almost as extreme as panicking over threats to Christian normativity.

I identify as civilizationally Christian, at the very least. I also identify as a civic nationalist, as I have said before on another part of this board. That does not make me a "Christian nationalist," of course, in the way this PRRI survey is framing it, but I have real concerns about the methodology being employed here. Let me make up a "non-partisan" surveying group with a PBS-looking acronym and publish some level-headed-seeming results to my survey that shows what I want to show.

Yeah, I am a little suspicious.

Kishkumen, I thought you present a group of good observations. I share your reaction of having concerns with methodology. I thought some or perhaps all of the questions were broad enough to catch wide selection of people. The phrase Christian Nationalist can mean something more specific and problematic like dominionist views.(or white nationalist) That is a pretty narrow group. The phrase by itself sounds like it could be broad enough to include people like me who believe nations are valuable useful social structures and believe Christian basics. I certainly think Christian thought and values should influence law and policy. I most certainly do not think they should have exclusive influence. Points of view other than Christian have valid claim to influence and Christian views are far from unified.

/////adding
I found myself wondering if dominionist was specific enough so checked with Wikipedia for common usage. It was broader than I was thinking of but linked to Mr Rushdooney whose name I always forget despite having a name one should remember.(abandon all hope ye who enter his nightmare is my view)
from Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._J._Rushdoony
"Michael J. McVicar summarized Rushdoony's theology and philosophy as follows:[17]

As a theologian Rushdoony saw human beings as primarily religious creatures bound to God, not as rational autonomous thinkers. While this may seem an esoteric theological point, it isn't. All of Rushdoony's influence on the Christian Right stems from this single, essential fact. Many critics of Christian Reconstructionism assume that Rushdoony's unique contribution to the Christian Right was his focus on theocracy. In fact, Rushdoony's primary innovation was his single-minded effort to popularize a pre-Enlightenment, medieval view of a God-centered world. By de-emphasizing humanity's ability to reason independently of God, Rushdoony attacked the assumptions most of us uncritically accept.

Rushdoony developed his philosophy as an extension of the work of Calvinist philosopher Cornelius Van Til. Van Til critiqued human knowledge in light of the Calvinist doctrine of total depravity. He argued that sin affected a person's ability to reason. In order to be rational, Van Til claimed, one must presuppose the existence of God and the inerrant, divine inspiration of the (Protestant) Bible.[17] Rushdoony attended to the implications – where Van Til held true knowledge came from God, Rushdoony asserted that "all non-Christian knowledge is sinful, invalid nonsense. The only valid knowledge that non-Christians possess is 'stolen' from 'Christian-theistic' sources."[17] In effect, Rushdoony extended Van Til's thinking from philosophy to "all of life and thought."[9]

[Moksha]

I identify as civilizationally Christian, at the very least. I also identify as a civic nationalist, as I have said before on another part of this board.

Do you own a pair of high-topped black boots, and WWII memorabilia incorporated into a manger scene?

[Kishkumen]

Do you own a pair of high-topped black boots, and WWII memorabilia incorporated into a manger scene?

Only Allied memorabilia, Moksha.

[Gadianton]

Frankly, I am surprised that the number is so low, given the fact that the Book of Mormon is so obviously an American Christian document

Exactly, Rev, the Book of Mormon is fundamentally a blueprint for Christian nationalism. It's hard to imagine any Mormon who takes their faith in the Book of Mormon seriously NOT being a Christian Nationalist.

However, it's a little more mixed on how Christian nationalism plays out than zealous Mormon nationalists would like it.

[dastardly stem]

I'd say cases have been made, convincingly, that the insurrection on January 6th was inspired by Christian nationalism. That suggests alone that Christian Nationalism can be a problem at the very least. As one example explains:

And finally, one of them, Officer Hodges, the officer trapped and nearly crushed to death
between the doors as the mob surged through the Capitol, spoke about the Christian
Nationalist aspect of this assault, though not using the label itself:
“It was clear the terrorists perceived themselves to be Christians. I saw the
Christian flag directly to my front. Another read ‘Jesus is my savior, Trump is my
president.’ Another, ‘Jesus is King.’”
That Christian flag was carried into battle against America—carried alongside the
Confederate flag. It was carried against the police officers protecting the beating heart of
our democracy. The terrorists didn’t just parade the flag on the battle lines opposite
Hodges, they carried that Christian flag onto the floor of the United States Senate. They
attacked, they conquered, they paraded their flag on vanquished ground . . . and then
they said a prayer to Jesus in that Senate.
“Thank you for allowing the United States of America to be reborn. Thank you for
allowing us to get rid of the communists, the globalists, and the traitors within our
government. We love you and we thank you. In Christ’s holy name we pray.
Amen.”5
The idea that “the United States of America [should] be reborn” and reborn “in Christ’s
holy name,” which is how the prayer concluded, is central to Christian Nationalism. We
cannot understand what happened on January 6 without understanding Christian
Nationalism. Nor can we hope to prevent a more serious repeat without confronting the
danger of Christian Nationalism.

Mormons who jump on board aren't doing themselves or country any favors, as I see it. They would love to see a Christian Nation, apparently. Little do they realize that if the Christian nationalists got their way, Mormonism would probably be a criminal offense. And granted, I'd wager, most Mormons who are Christian Nationalists aren't near as militant as others. But seriously, Mormons jumping on that train is a terrible thing, I'd say.

[Kishkumen]

I think my issue with what you are pointing out, stem, is one of scale. Were there crazy Christian nationalists storming the Capitol on January 6? No doubt. But there were also a lot of other kinds of wingnuts out there. If we have anecdotes about some Christian nationalists present and offending on the day in question, are we going to blow the problem way out of proportion? I think we may. Also, we prosecute crimes, not ideas. Hopefully we debate ideas rather than quash them through other means. The same bad thinking that stirs bigots up against Islam writ large in unproductive ways might also be aimed at Christians. One might start thinking that a larger portion of the Christian community is made up Christian nationalists than is actually the case and act accordingly. That would probably make matters a lot worse, not better.

[Doctor Steuss]

Misleading click-bait article title, in my opinion. Unless I'm looking at the wrong survey results.

[dastardly stem]

I think my issue with what you are pointing out, stem, is one of scale. Were there crazy Christian nationalists storming the Capitol on January 6? No doubt. But there were also a lot of other kinds of wingnuts out there. If we have anecdotes about some Christian nationalists present and offending on the day in question, are we going to blow the problem way out of proportion? I think we may. Also, we prosecute crimes, not ideas. Hopefully we debate ideas rather than quash them through other means. The same bad thinking that stirs bigots up against Islam writ large in unproductive ways might also be aimed at Christians. One might start thinking that a larger portion of the Christian community is made up Christian nationalists than is actually the case and act accordingly. That would probably make matters a lot worse, not better.

There are Christians who oppose Christian nationalism on Christian grounds. I'd like to see more. No doubt if they think about it, they realize quite quickly Christian Nationalism isn't a good idea, and isn't Christian. many adherents, I'd wager, are decent Christians who think Christianity is the answer and tend to get obnoxious telling everyone that.

In regards to other wingnuts the article I linked said:

The many disparate identities and ideologies visible during the attack were united under
a banner of Christian Nationalism, which created the permission structure necessary for
Americans to attack their own government. The correspondent who shot the viral New
Yorker video footage explained it like this: “The Christianity was one of the surprises to
me in covering this stuff, and it has been hugely underestimated,” he said. “That
Christian Nationalism you talk about is the driving force and also the unifying force of
these disparate players. It’s really Christianity that ties it all together.”

Its not that there are not other groups with other names, its that these groups too identify as and with Christian nationalism. QAnon conspiracists are not just QAnon conspiracists. They tend to also want to see America become a Christian nation run by this extreme rigid and conservative form of Christianity. This is no direct attack on Christianity. It's a direct attack against those Christians who want to thwart our national principles in favor of their ideology. As the poll linked to suggests. There's a good 10% adherents in the nation. That's a lot of people. There are plenty of Christian Nationalists in positions of power and influence, saying terrible things, promoting terrible politics and pushing for terrible policies. We should not, of course not, use this news as a reason to attack Christians or Christianity. And hopefully more Christians jump on board to put a stop to the nonsense. In fact we need them.

[huckelberry]

Misleading click-bait article title, in my opinion. Unless I'm looking at the wrong survey results.

Looks like the same study. LDS measured 5 percent adherents of Christian nationalism. Quite a different view than our thread title. Well 33 percent measured as sympathizer so total is similar to this 40 percent.

As has been pointed out in this thread there are clear reasons Mormons would have some sympathies with some of the ideas of Christian Nationalism (whatever portions or versions of that constellation of different views might be meant.)