Non-Celestial Posts "Dynastic Marriages-Doctrinal Quest

[_Runtu]

Maybe we are Second City characters.

Mr. Scratch: Count Floyd
Merc and B&L: the Schmenge Brothers
charity: Edith Prickley
Runtu: Bobby Bittman
rcrocket: William B. Williams
Cogs: Sid Dithers
Liz: Tawny Beaver ("that's 'bevay,' Floyd")
Doctor Steuss: Ed Grimley

The sad thing is that I'm either too old or too uncool to recognize any of those characters. Sigh. Church Lady is the last one I recognize, and I'd vote for charity on that one, too.

I think I'm so old I still remember Second City.

[_sunstoned]

If this is the real bishop crocket, I don't think he cares at all. His arrogance is such that he believes in his own ability to discern who is really struggling, and who is just some closet vicious exmo, and he dispenses with the latter without a second thought. Closet vicious exmos aren't real people to him, just some foil to his imaginary heroic actions. So anyone who would have a problem with him posting here isn't worthy of his regard. I do believe that the poster crocket has, over the years he's posted here, manifested a personality trait that could dehumanize other people, if they're in the "wrong" tribe. The fact that he feels comfortable - in real life - telling people to get out of the church speaks VOLUMES about his personality, in my opinion.

As sad as it may seem, I believe this is the real Bob crocket. I met Elder Bob Crocket 30 years ago in Hammond Ind. I was a new Elder and he was a ZL. This is an excerpt from my journal, dated June 26, 1975:

...the zones came by today. I worked with both Woodman and Crocket. I have heard that Elder Crocket is one of the mission Bible bashers. The afternoon was spent teamed with Crocket. He was loud and forceful at the door and kept telling me to be more forceful. He told an elderly couple that they should humble themselves before the next set of Elders. This was very disturbing. I"m glad this day is over.

The behavior you are witnessing today is the same behavior I saw in Crocket all those years ago.

[_beastie]

That's interesting, sunstoned. Your evidence, along with the hana's, convinces me that he is, indeed, the real bob crocket. Your statements as well as his own also persuade me that his behavior here is consistent with his behavior in real life. These statements contribute to a growing suspicion on my part regarding his personality traits that tend to
cluster around a certain personality type. The idea of a 21 year old telling an elderly couple to "humble themselves" before the next set of elders is typical of this personality type. It is consistent with the adult bob who is so arrogant he views himself as having the right to tell people to leave the church. It is no wonder that reason and evidence does not dent bob's complete confidence in his absolute rightness. This personality type is impervious to reason and evidence.

This makes me even more suspicious of his claim to have received death threats on his cell phone. It would be totally in line with this personality type to lie about such an event with the sole purpose to damage the reputation of others. He has lied through gross distortion already on this site to damage reputations. He would claim it's not possible to damage reputations of anonymous posters, but of course their reputations can be damaged within their internet community. No wonder he's obsessed about the idea of anonymous posters being evil due to damaging the reputation of real life people through criticism. People who manifest a certain trait in abundance are often obsessed about finding that same trait in others. The spouse who is cheating will become obsessed with the idea that his/her spouse is cheating, and even accuse them of such, is a classic example.

[_the road to hana]

This makes me even more suspicious of his claim to have received death threats on his cell phone. It would be totally in line with this personality type to lie about such an event with the sole purpose to damage the reputation of others. He has lied through gross distortion already on this site to damage reputations.

I would be inclined to agree, sadly, although I have no evidence either way regarding someone accessing his phone. It's possible (particularly since he lists the number on his ward's website) that he does indeed receive calls that can be perceived to be threatening. It's likely he's exaggerating that for effect to try to incriminate.

[_harmony]

This makes me even more suspicious of his claim to have received death threats on his cell phone. It would be totally in line with this personality type to lie about such an event with the sole purpose to damage the reputation of others. He has lied through gross distortion already on this site to damage reputations.

I would be inclined to agree, sadly, although I have no evidence either way regarding someone accessing his phone. It's possible (particularly since he lists the number on his ward's website) that he does indeed receive calls that can be perceived to be threatening. It's likely he's exaggerating that for effect to try to incriminate.

How is his private information accessible to anyone outside his ward, even though it's on the ward website? I run our ward's website, and it is password protected. You have to put in your member number and baptism date in order to register your username and password. Your real name shows up on the member list (or at least the name by which you are known on the records of the church), which is available to both the ward and stake webmaster. Anyone who registered who really is not a member of that ward would immediately raise a red flag.

Is he saying people here are using their personal information to gain access to his ward's website? That's really bizarre.

[_the road to hana]

This makes me even more suspicious of his claim to have received death threats on his cell phone. It would be totally in line with this personality type to lie about such an event with the sole purpose to damage the reputation of others. He has lied through gross distortion already on this site to damage reputations.

I would be inclined to agree, sadly, although I have no evidence either way regarding someone accessing his phone. It's possible (particularly since he lists the number on his ward's website) that he does indeed receive calls that can be perceived to be threatening. It's likely he's exaggerating that for effect to try to incriminate.

How is his private information accessible to anyone outside his ward, even though it's on the ward website? I run our ward's website, and it is password protected. You have to put in your member number and baptism date in order to register your username and password. Your real name shows up on the member list (or at least the name by which you are known on the records of the church), which is available to both the ward and stake webmaster. Anyone who registered who really is not a member of that ward would immediately raise a red flag.

Is he saying people here are using their personal information to gain access to his ward's website? That's really bizarre.

All you have to do is do a meetinghouse locator search on the LDS.org website. If you happen to know his home address already (which is easily available), it's simple enough to do a search for the local meetinghouse. Since one of the wards listed lists "Bishop Crockett" and a cell phone number for the bishop, it's publicly available to anyone who wants to do a meetinghouse locator search.

As noted, though, not all ward websites post the names or phone number of their bishops publicly. One doesn't even have to get to the ward membership or leadership lists (which would've course be password protected) to access this information, in his case.

You'll have to trust me on this, since I'm absolutely not going to post a link to it here.

[_Jason Bourne]

That's interesting, sunstoned. Your evidence, along with the hana's, convinces me that he is, indeed, the real bob crocket. Your statements as well as his own also persuade me that his behavior here is consistent with his behavior in real life. These statements contribute to a growing suspicion on my part regarding his personality traits that tend to
cluster around a certain personality type. The idea of a 21 year old telling an elderly couple to "humble themselves" before the next set of elders is typical of this personality type. It is consistent with the adult bob who is so arrogant he views himself as having the right to tell people to leave the church. It is no wonder that reason and evidence does not dent bob's complete confidence in his absolute rightness. This personality type is impervious to reason and evidence.

This makes me even more suspicious of his claim to have received death threats on his cell phone. It would be totally in line with this personality type to lie about such an event with the sole purpose to damage the reputation of others. He has lied through gross distortion already on this site to damage reputations. He would claim it's not possible to damage reputations of anonymous posters, but of course their reputations can be damaged within their internet community. No wonder he's obsessed about the idea of anonymous posters being evil due to damaging the reputation of real life people through criticism. People who manifest a certain trait in abundance are often obsessed about finding that same trait in others. The spouse who is cheating will become obsessed with the idea that his/her spouse is cheating, and even accuse them of such, is a classic example.

To be fair to Bob I think it is a bit of a stretch to extrapolate an entry from one Elder's journal from 30 years ago into a personality type that prevails 30 years later. Maybe this is Bob's outlet like it for some of us. Also, I recall being much more rigid about things as a young Elder that was a bit full of himself. I recall getting into it with a nice Catholic man one time while on my mission. He kept saying he did not need a living prophet because he had the pope. I kept asking if the Pope gets revelation today. We went round and round and were both quite hot. The man was fairly well known in the community. He wrote an editorial to the paper about the aggressive Mormon missionaries in town and said we believed that we could only get to God through the Book fo Revelation. He also called the local bishop who raked me over the coals and told my MP about it who also raked me over the coals.

As much a Bob's approach towards me disturbs me I must confess that I have, in past times, been a lot like him. In my 20's and 30's I was all for purging out sinners and weak kneed saints. In my late 30's and early 40's there were a number of major life events that started to soften me. Someday maybe I will share some of them. But through them I really turned to LDS scripture and made a study of them. I also read a lot of Neal Maxwell who I think overall was a pretty Christ like man. As I did this I softened greatly and I believe became more filled with love and compassion for all people-LDS or not, struggling LDS or some other faith or even no faith at all. All this was before I had questions or doubts about my own beloved LDS Church.


So maybe Bob is ultra zealous and really cannot stand dissent. I have called him a monolithic Mormon. What I mean by that is that for Bob, or anyone that fits this term, and I only base that on his posting here, is they are very authoritarian and cannot stand dissent or varying views that may differ from at leas the way they understand the Church. Obedience and submission to the authority of the Church is paramount. In a way the Church is a totalitarian entity in such a one's life. Anyone who differs in culture or belief that is still part of the organization is a threat. They must either be put back in line or purged. I must confess I did not originate the term. I am not sure where I got it. It was from Eugene Englund, Lowell Bennion or one of the more liberal LDS thinkers and writers.

[_beastie]

It's not just his intolerance for dissent that signals a certain personality type. It's his willingness to deliberately distort or manipulate information to support his position. His MMM review is a good example, as is the fact that he keeps saying hana and I "stalk" him and that I said "vulgar" things about his young children. These are such gross distortions of what actually occurred that these assertions no longer can be justified as a difference of perspective, but as a willingness to lie to damage others.

Also remember that he informed us that his online personality here is consistent with his real life personality, and in real life he feels justified telling people to leave the church. I think that is extreme behavior, but perhaps I have lived a sheltered life. In the years when I was struggling as a believer, and gradually losing faith, I talked to many, many members of the ward about the issues causing me problems. Not a single one judged me harshly (as far as I know) or told me I should leave the church, including the leaders I talked to. In fact, quite the opposite - they wanted me to stay and try to work these things out. I did have one unpleasant experience with one man in our ward, and he was that way with everyone. The only reason I got up the courage to even call him was because he was The Historian in our ward, and had even written a book about church history. And he certainly didn't tell me to leave the church, he was just abrupt and dismissive with me.

[_beastie]

I forgot one of the most troubling elements in this - that, by his own admission - bob does not view us as "real" people, but rather "second life" characters.

I think that goes beyond simply being a monolithic Mormon.

[_the road to hana]

So maybe Bob is ultra zealous and really cannot stand dissent.

I doubt he's a zealot. He's clearly a centrist with Democratic leanings (he openly supports Clinton for President).

More likely he's left of the mainstream of Mormonism, and just trying to keep it all together--home, work, church--and posting here as a release, and a means of thinking out loud.

Some of us have been there. I left Mormonism long before Internet discussion boards, or even the Internet, existed, but if they had, I absolutely would have used them as a means of exploration and support, and even release, while making that journey.