Arkansas woman dies in Oklahoma recreating Mormon trek

[_Lemmie]

You guys really are clueless....

When I was in the Marines in each training period every single hump (hike) there was someone or several people who had heat related issues, and this was in Southern California Summer Heat, and we didn't even have close to what the Church has in preparation to keep people healthy and does otherwise related to safety and the highly limited nature of their Treks. We wore full fatigues, packs and other gear, doing 20 mile humps up and down mountains at a fast near slow jogging pace.

See, what you bigoted people don't get, is that when you do things such as this, even in the best of circumstances sometimes crap happens, the planets align. They've had these Treks for years without much in the way of problems, and the Church is VERY careful about safety etc. and they've had years to perfect the system of it.

I can't say why things happened so great this time, and neither can any of you.
So stop with the unrighteous and false judgments. This was an accident.... pure and simple.

Unbelievable. Faqsless says the US Maine Corps is less prepared than a teen Trek run by volunteers. Words fail me. The other stuff he says here is of course his usual brain dead parroting of black and white thinking. He is so far off not even people supporting these Treks would agree with him.

One question, what on god's green earth is 'a fast near slow pace'? Faqsless, you really shouldn't be talking about military experiences here. You've made it perfectly clear the only part of your experience that people can trust was non-imaginary is the time you told us you spent in the brig for failure to fulfill your commitment.

[Guest]

You guys really are clueless....

When I was in the Marines in each training period every single hump (hike) there was someone or several people who had heat related issues, and this was in Southern California Summer Heat, and we didn't even have close to what the Church has in preparation to keep people healthy and does otherwise related to safety and the highly limited nature of their Treks. We wore full fatigues, packs and other gear, doing 20 mile humps up and down mountains at a fast near slow jogging pace.

See, what you bigoted people don't get, is that when you do things such as this, even in the best of circumstances sometimes crap happens, the planets align. They've had these Treks for years without much in the way of problems, and the Church is VERY careful about safety etc. and they've had years to perfect the system of it.

I can't say why things happened so great this time, and neither can any of you.
So stop with the unrighteous and false judgments. This was an accident.... pure and simple.

Unbelievable. Faqsless says the US Maine Corps is less prepared than a teen Trek run by volunteers. Words fail me. The other stuff he says here is of course his usual brain dead parroting of black and white thinking. He is so far off not even people supporting these Treks would agree with him.

One question, what on god's green earth is 'a fast near slow pace'? Faqsless, you really shouldn't be talking about military experiences here. You've made it perfectly clear the only part of your experience that people can trust was non-imaginary is the time you told us you spent in the brig for failure to fulfill your commitment.

FAQs is talking about ITR at Camp Pendleton (as far as he got). What he conveniently left out is the training that every Marine received (during boot camp at MCRD) before arriving at Camp Pendleton. Here are some of the things that Marines learn, and perhaps even experience, about heat exhaustion, heat stroke, and sun exposure in general, in boot camp:

Number one: If you allow yourself to get sunburned on duty, or on leave, to the point where it interferes in any way with the performance of your duty, the Corps can court martial you - and probably will.

Number two: As you are marching or standing in formation, you are, at any time upon request by those in command, required to recite (loudly and clearly) the causes and symptoms of heat exhaustion, heat stroke and the immediate measures to be taken by all involved when such symptoms are detected. And if you don't get it word perfect, you will be doing an insane number of pushups.

Number three: You are required, at all times while in the field, to carry and consume the amount of water deemed necessary to avoid dehydration. Your canteens will be checked by your friendly local NCO.

Number four: On long runs or dismounted troop movements in hot weather - during training - there is always a vehicle that is somewhere in the area, in radio contact, to pick up stragglers or those who go down (whether they are faking it or not) and render them professional assistance as needed.

Number five: As a US Marine, you are the property and responsibility of the U.S. Government, which Government has spent a lot of time and money to train and equip you. As a Government assets, it is your responsibility take proper care of yourself and those around you to the best of your ability. And to my knowledge, no unit I was ever in lost anyone to heat stroke.

So, while I believe that FAQs probably did go through USMC training, I don't think he was paying very close attention.

[_AmyJo]

Oh, certainly. I don't think they'd be prosecuted unless it was one of the teens rather than an adult who had died. But 'theoretically' sure looks damning nonetheless for the culprits that promoted this misadventure if it meets the statutory definition in Oklahoma.

It's children (minors a.k.a. infants in the law,) that are viewed as inconsequential in lawsuits involving physical injury resulting in death. They don't recover nearly as much as their elders do, were all circumstances otherwise the same, owing to their age.

It may vary from state to state, but until they reach majority children are one of the most discriminated groups in society, next to the impoverished. They are not a suspect group for EEO, same as those living in poverty. They don't have many rights if any, in other words, including getting compensation in civil tort lawsuits.

The wife could actually recover more in damages (er, her estate that is,) if say her husband were to sue the church for loss of consortium, companionship, mother to their children, etc.

[_Blixa]

Almost perfect. It probably should be "I'm so noun, I adjective verb's" to be really on the money in this case.

[_Chap]

The wife could actually recover more in damages (er, her estate that is,) if say her husband were to sue the church for loss of consortium

My goodness!

In the US you can still sue for loss of consortium??

I saw an old English case in which this was accepted as a basis of action by a husband whose neighbor's works on a party wall has loosened an old-fashioned cast-iron toilet cistern, so that when his wife pulled the chain to flush the toilet it fell down on her head and deprived him of her 'consortium' for quite a while.

In some aspects of law as well as language, the US is a trip down memory lane ...

[_madeleine]

Arkansas woman dies in Oklahoma recreating Mormon trek

TULSA, Okla. – An Arkansas woman has died in Oklahoma while helping lead teenagers in a re-enactment of the westward journey of Mormons to Utah.

A spokeswoman for the Rogers, Arkansas, Stake of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints says 29-year-old Meaghan Lee Querry Blair of Rogers died Monday of what appeared to be heat stroke.

Deborah Neria told reporters that Blair became ill Monday near the end of a 7-mile hike near Tulsa. She was taken to a Tulsa hospital where she died. A phone call to the Rogers office rang unanswered Wednesday.

Blair and her husband were serving as leaders for teenagers on the trek. The groups typically wear pioneer-era clothing, pull handcarts and discuss the mid-1800s Mormons who walked across the Great Plains to Utah.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/22/ar ... -trek.html

How sad. :(

[_madeleine]

Heatstroke is preventable, by acclimatizing to the heat. People who shelter in air conditioned buildings for most of the day, every day, should not just up and spend many hours exercising, in extreme heat.

Even the NPS puts warnings all over the place to not hike in the middle of the day, during the summer. It's basic outdoorsmanship. There isn't any hike worth risking reaching the breaking point of your body's cooling system.

Indoors-y city/suburban people, are kind of naïve in this regard, in my experience.

[_Chap]

How sad. :(

In relation to this woman's death, yes, sad. Very sad.

In relation to the actions of those who organized this very strenuous event in very hot conditions, and even continued after it became clear that some people were becoming heat-stressed, the reaction is different.

Incredulity at their ignorant stupidity and recklessness.

Indignation at this pointless waste of a life, for the sake of a 'historical' recreation of an event that represents the experience of only a rather small proportion of the Mormons who migrated to Utah in the early days. This is being pushed on members in what is (no doubt) an attempt to use the well known psychological ploy of increasing their commitment to the church by making them do unpleasant and unreasonable things because the leaders want them to.

Disgust at attempts to turn aside the criticism that the church deserves by suggesting that critics are doing something improper by saying 'This woman died because you did something really, really dumb.'

[_madeleine]

How sad. :(

In relation to this woman's death, yes, sad. Very sad.

In relation to the actions of those who organized this very strenuous event in very hot conditions, and even continued after it became clear that some people were becoming heat-stressed, the reaction is different.

Incredulity at their ignorant stupidity and recklessness.

Indignation at this pointless waste of a life, for the sake of a 'historical' recreation of an event that represents the experience of only a rather small proportion of the Mormons who migrated to Utah in the early days. This is being pushed on members in what is (no doubt) an attempt to use the well known psychological ploy of increasing their commitment to the church by making them do unpleasant and unreasonable things because the leaders want them to.

Disgust at attempts to turn aside the criticism that the church deserves by suggesting that critics are doing something improper by saying 'This woman died because you did something really, really dumb.'

Yeah I think it is comparable to student athletes that have died of heatstroke during football practice. Parents have sued and won. States pass laws that enforce heat acclimatization. No more student deaths.

I can't imagine the three medical people who were there weren't advising an end to the activity. I would wager they did, but we're not listened to. There's a pack of priesthood leaders that are ultimately responsible. Someone or someones who put so much time and effort into the preparation work, they didn't want to see it "wasted". The show must go on.

It is very sad, I think.

[_toon]

Unbelievable. Faqsless says the US Maine Corps is less prepared than a teen Trek run by volunteers. Words fail me. The other stuff he says here is of course his usual brain dead parroting of black and white thinking. He is so far off not even people supporting these Treks would agree with him.

One question, what on god's green earth is 'a fast near slow pace'? Faqsless, you really shouldn't be talking about military experiences here. You've made it perfectly clear the only part of your experience that people can trust was non-imaginary is the time you told us you spent in the brig for failure to fulfill your commitment.

FAQs is talking about ITR at Camp Pendleton (as far as he got). What he conveniently left out is the training that every Marine received (during boot camp at MCRD) before arriving at Camp Pendleton. Here are some of the things that Marines learn, and perhaps even experience, about heat exhaustion, heat stroke, and sun exposure in general, in boot camp:

Number one: If you allow yourself to get sunburned on duty, or on leave, to the point where it interferes in any way with the performance of your duty, the Corps can court martial you - and probably will.

Number two: As you are marching or standing in formation, you are, at any time upon request by those in command, required to recite (loudly and clearly) the causes and symptoms of heat exhaustion, heat stroke and the immediate measures to be taken by all involved when such symptoms are detected. And if you don't get it word perfect, you will be doing an insane number of pushups.

Number three: You are required, at all times while in the field, to carry and consume the amount of water deemed necessary to avoid dehydration. Your canteens will be checked by your friendly local NCO.

Number four: On long runs or dismounted troop movements in hot weather - during training - there is always a vehicle that is somewhere in the area, in radio contact, to pick up stragglers or those who go down (whether they are faking it or not) and render them professional assistance as needed.

Number five: As a US Marine, you are the property and responsibility of the U.S. Government, which Government has spent a lot of time and money to train and equip you. As a Government assets, it is your responsibility take proper care of yourself and those around you to the best of your ability. And to my knowledge, no unit I was ever in lost anyone to heat stroke.

So, while I believe that FAQs probably did go through USMC training, I don't think he was paying very close attention.[/quote]

We know a lot more now about heat related illnesses and the stresses caused by heat on people. Or even if known back when Ldsfaqs was alleged in the service, we've learned how to implement policies that address the risks.

A similar analogy is high school football. I think all states now have implemented mandatory rules for practices and games that dictate how much and how long you can practice based upon some heat index, whether pads can be worn, how many breaks per hour, and whether practices have to be called off. I know some coaches had to be dragged kicking and screaming into compliance -- they had the "suck it up, it'll toughen you up" approach. But they were wrong, and now everyone's on board.

It would be quite easy for the Church to implement mandatory safety rules for youth activities along the same lines. (It already does in some aspects, but it's haphazard.)

For once, it'd be nice to see the Church ahead of the curve.