Let’s Get It Straight On Trolling

[MG 2.0]

When it stops being interesting, challenging, and fun, I'll stop participating.

Same here.

Interesting to hear someone admit and celebrate the "echo chamber" status of this board and the fact that this is the desired outcome for board members as a whole. And that one or more board members are congratulated for doing what it takes to make it so.

My argument in this thread is that it takes a conscious and deliberate effort to create a community in which the echo chamber effect prevails. A number of the trolling techniques, in my opinion/estimation, have been employed by enough people that we find things as they are and have been for a long while.

THAT, folks, is why you don't see active and believing/experienced members of the church here contrary to the position/expression posted just recently. Why would any sane person subject themselves to constant trolling techniques and abuse? On top of that, to be constantly told, when telling/saying things as they are...and directly observable...that YOU are projecting?

C'mon. I am just as self aware as any of you might claim to be if not more so. I say that because of some of the responses I have consistently had to deal with over a long period of time. You get a feel for whether or not someone is being strictly honest with you. I find myself asking, "How can they even say that with no shame or embarrassment?" And yet it continues. Others just sit back (knowing?) that the overall "health" of the community demands that the echo chamber structure not be shaken in any way.

Even if the actions of certain members are over the top and trollish.

It's difficult to visualize/conceptualize the self talk that goes on in the minds/hearts of some folks here to rationalize and protect some of the things that are to a steady/sane person obviously the outgrowths and manifestations of either trauma or conscious life choices /actions that would result in some of the things I have heard some people say... apparently in good conscience.

At times I find it almost unbelievable. And yet.

On this thread I have taken the time to read some comments from foes in order to get a feel for whether or not my suspicions/concerns rest on a firm foundation. I believe I am justified in coming to the conclusion that there are a number of people who exhibit one or more of the trolling techniques I have described/listed.

I get it. A community does what it needs to do to protect 'its turf' from outliers. Obfuscation is the norm. Twisting of the opponent's words and context is a given. Accusations of not being transparent and fully responsive. These are all necessary to 'hold the line'.

I would say, "Enough is enough", but realistically...it's not. Boundary maintenance is human.

Earlier I mentioned "Double Bind'. A technique used to put a person in a 'no win' situation. It is rather evident that some folks are skilled in setting up that almost impossible situation to wiggle out of when the bind has the support of the majority.

Anyway, I expect the usual. Projection. Failure this. Failure that. Holier than Thou. You name it.

To be clear, I think there are some good folks on this board. Some that I enjoy the opportunity to stretch the boundaries of my own experience and thinking. That can be a wonderful experience/opportunity when it happens. It has happened enough times with some individuals to make my time here worthwhile. And even fun.

Honestly though, there are just a few people here that in my opinion spoil things for the general health and well being of the board. Others are apparently blind (willfully or not) to it. Trollish behavior and the projecting that behavior on to 'the mark' who one hates or despises.

Vendettas are a poison and can have influence beyond the all nucleus of troubled souls that are not able to forgive and forget. This board could be much better/healthier if not for that unfortunate reality.

It is what it is. Look back at the OP and some of my original posts. Have some of these trollish techniques not been observed by others?

Regards,
MG

P.S. Some of those techniques will be employed as this thread continues. The finger will point somewhere else other than looking inward for any honest self reflection on the part of the trolls.

Those folks are back on my foes/ignore list. I will not see or read anything they have to say. It's poison. It's unhealthy. What happens to some, not all, not even most, individuals when they leave the church and its teachings behind is sad to see/observe. But I've seen it here.

Acceptance of depravity and filth as being the norm? Anything goes? And then accusations that I was being perverse?

Not for me.

I'm grateful for the Ignore function and look forward to participating even if having to do so means restricted participation with those that I have a level of trust.

Done with this thread. It served its purpose. Shining the light.

[Limnor]

It seems we’ve seen the creation of an anti-echo chamber echo chamber, complete with the slamming “I’m done” door—while continuing to post. Carry on.

[Marcus]

I see board responses to MG like this: if attempts to engage are met with MG-style obfuscation, derailment, or constant reframing, some here tend to shift modes—myself included. Instead of continuing to chase the argument, satire or parody is used as an attempt to reflect the pattern back to MG. Who then either sincerely or deliberately misunderstands and turns it into an accusation like we’re seeing in this thread.

For example, when a claim is made and then redefined mid-discussion, or when a direct question is either ignored or adjusted, it creates a moving target. For my part, unapologetically mirroring the pattern is just a way to demonstrate what is happening and reflects recognition of the futility of trying to sustain actual engagement with someone who doesn’t really want to engage to understand.

That's why I don't directly engage him, but I do think it is important that his disruptions are calmly recognized for what they are, as in my opinion, it takes any possible weight out of his attacks. Do you recall the scene at the end of The Witches of East Wick? Jack Nicholson's character was literally raining all hell down on the humans so they started laughing at him. Not ignoring, not hiding, not leaving their home, but laughing. It took a bit more magic than just that, but he was eventually rendered harmless because people didn't let him be destructive in their space.

I see trolling behaviors that way. You can heed the advice to not feed the troll, but that never seems to change anything, and people end up not sharing, not participating, or, as has happened many times, simply leaving. I prefer to acknowledge the trolling and mirror back the nonsense of his position with some sharp humor, and in my opinion it renders it more harmless than just ignoring it. Then, one can continue participating.

We have a very nice community here, in my opinion, and I think it's worth preserving and enjoying. Leaving or avoiding parts of it because of a troll is not a price we should be asked to pay.

Regardless of mentalgymnast's protestations that he participates in good faith, there is an underlying message in every one of his communications, and that is that he thinks people here, in general and as a stereotyped group, are less than he is. He states it, in virtually every single post, in various forms ranging from passive aggressive but ultimately mean-spirited non-humorous 'humor' to outright vicious attacks. Occasionally he'll tell someone he approves of how they treat him and so he will deign to interact with them, but that just emphasizes his underlying position--he does not respect our community and he treats people badly for no reason other than that they are part of this community. His posts far too frequently reflect the absolute antithesis of the spirit here, and have done so for decades. in my opinion, that is not what we, as a community, should have to just tolerate.

As you know, I've tried a combination of rewording, rearranging, tagging, bright yellow sticky pointers on the page - well, not the last one yet - to no avail. I find it difficult to avoid a bit of mocking in order to see if MG will answer serious questions based on statements he has made. But then he claims to be hurt by the tone.

Unfortunately, although MG says he wants serious discussion, with me at least he simply ignores attempts to engage him when the topic is too difficult to turn to something positive for the church. Oh, well - what can we do? I still enjoy the mental exercise of trying to express an argument in a coherent manner, and advancing (or retreating) according to replies. When it stops being interesting, challenging, and fun, I'll stop participating.

I enjoy the discussions also, here in this community we have. I find it meaningful and mentally challenging also. in my opinion, we have an invasive hater, but since we can't stop him from expressing his hate here, at least we can find ways to neutralize it. We each seem to have our strategies.

[Marcus]

That's exactly what he's attempting in this thread, another use of this weird projection technique as he tries to troll the board. He's spent decades here, moving from one strategy to another, desperate for attention. He can't survive without trolling, but hating a group of people that much has to take its toll, even on trolls.

I marvel how you are able to stay on top of everything and rein in that little monster of a troll.

You should be congratulated for your hard work and endurance. Hell, you should be paid!

Thank you.

Thank you!! You are a sweetheart as usual and your words are very kind.

[Limnor]

I prefer to acknowledge the trolling and mirror back the nonsense of his position with some sharp humor, and in my opinion it renders it more harmless than just ignoring it.

Same. What I’d really like to see is sincere engagement from MG. But expectations have dwindled based on the experience, and I’ve chosen an approach similar to yours. Maybe something will change but I put the probability very low.

[malkie]

MG: "Interesting to hear someone admit and celebrate the "echo chamber" status of this board and the fact that this is the desired outcome for board members as a whole. And that one or more board members are congratulated for doing what it takes to make it so."

I don't think that the opinion of "someone" constitutes a "fact" for "board members as a whole". But that "fact" suits MG's narrative, and preconceptions.

[MG 2.0]

MG: "Interesting to hear someone admit and celebrate the "echo chamber" status of this board and the fact that this is the desired outcome for board members as a whole. And that one or more board members are congratulated for doing what it takes to make it so."

I don't think that the opinion of "someone" constitutes a "fact" for "board members as a whole". But that "fact" suits MG's narrative, and preconceptions.

As per what I've said on the "Outlier" thread I will not have any further comment on any threads so as not to muddy the waters on the responses in that thread.

You may be rid of me!

I'll check in on the other thread next week.

Take care, malkie.

Regards,
MG

[Shulem]

Interesting to hear someone admit and celebrate the "echo chamber" status of this board and the fact that this is the desired outcome for board members as a whole. And that one or more board members are congratulated for doing what it takes to make it so.

This board rocks and is quite capable of taking any and all apologists on and flushing their corrupt arguments down the toilet. And you? You're just a wussy-boy -- bantha poodoo.

Flush!

Obfuscation is the norm.

Such is Pearl of Great Price Central which continues to defend the ridiculous revelations in Mormon scripture about what the writing in Facsimile No. 3 really says.

Screw you, MG -- you troll. Go back to bed and get some more beauty sleep.

Those folks are back on my foes/ignore list.

Woo hoo!!! I consider it a badge of honor. I'm holding you to your promise, troll-boy.