Spiritual trauma: did you have any?

[_charity]

.

by the way, charity, I'm still waiting for your description of the cycle of abuse, and where "growing a spine", and finding the "strength to confront" her abuser fit into that cycle, and how "confronting her abuser" is a feasible, practical solution to abuse.

There is a time when tension builds up. It gets increasingly intense, the abuser starts and the abuse escalates. When the victim perceives that nothing she is doing is decreasing the intensity and when the tension is unbearable, she will d something to provoke an attack. (Make something for dinner he doesn't like etc.) Then there is a severe abusive incident "which is all her fault for making cacaroni and cheese." He becomes repentant, apologizes, brings gifts, makes promises. etc. There is a period of relative calm until tension begins to build. That is the cycle.

Did I pass your test?

Just so you will know, I don't think anybody should have to go through what you went through.

[_Jersey Girl]

.

by the way, charity, I'm still waiting for your description of the cycle of abuse, and where "growing a spine", and finding the "strength to confront" her abuser fit into that cycle, and how "confronting her abuser" is a feasible, practical solution to abuse.

There is a time when tension builds up. It gets increasingly intense, the abuser starts and the abuse escalates. When the victim perceives that nothing she is doing is decreasing the intensity and when the tension is unbearable, she will d something to provoke an attack. (Make something for dinner he doesn't like etc.) Then there is a severe abusive incident "which is all her fault for making cacaroni and cheese." He becomes repentant, apologizes, brings gifts, makes promises. etc. There is a period of relative calm until tension begins to build. That is the cycle.

Did I pass your test?

Just so you will know, I don't think anybody should have to go through what you went through.

Excuse me, charity. You've said nothing here regarding power and control issues. No mention of various forms of control that are present in the chronic abuse situation. Would you address those, please?

[_harmony]

.

by the way, charity, I'm still waiting for your description of the cycle of abuse, and where "growing a spine", and finding the "strength to confront" her abuser fit into that cycle, and how "confronting her abuser" is a feasible, practical solution to abuse.

There is a time when tension builds up. It gets increasingly intense, the abuser starts and the abuse escalates. When the victim perceives that nothing she is doing is decreasing the intensity and when the tension is unbearable, she will d something to provoke an attack. (Make something for dinner he doesn't like etc.) Then there is a severe abusive incident "which is all her fault for making cacaroni and cheese." He becomes repentant, apologizes, brings gifts, makes promises. etc. There is a period of relative calm until tension begins to build. That is the cycle.

Did I pass your test?

Just so you will know, I don't think anybody should have to go through what you went through.

Where in this cycle do you think it would help for her to confront her abuser? When the tension is building? After he erupts? After he's "repented"?

[_truth dancer]

There is a time when tension builds up. It gets increasingly intense, the abuser starts and the abuse escalates. When the victim perceives that nothing she is doing is decreasing the intensity and when the tension is unbearable, she will d something to provoke an attack. (Make something for dinner he doesn't like etc.) Then there is a severe abusive incident "which is all her fault for making cacaroni and cheese." He becomes repentant, apologizes, brings gifts, makes promises. etc. There is a period of relative calm until tension begins to build. That is the cycle.

Did I pass your test?

No Charity... not by a long shot. Abuse is not the woman's fault. Can't you get this into your brain? You can't accept what is true so you make up some garbarge to support YOUR ideas? It is NONSENSE!

I can't for the life of me understand how you could teach a course on psych. It baffles my mind.

Come on Charity... why not read a book? Or at least google the cycle of abuse?

To make it easy for you...

http://crisis-support.org/cycle.htm

http://www.edvp.org/AboutDV/cycle.htm

http://www.psychpage.com/gay/library/ga ... lence.html

~dancer~

[_Coggins7]

BishopRic, were you called and sustained as a bishop, or were you actiing in your capacity as First Counselor? I have never known as a situation where a First Counselor stepped out of his ordained and set apart position, even when the bishop was gone for a month. As ours just was. So, were you actually called by the stake president? Sustained by your ward as the bishop?

Please let us know.

Lucretia, little locks in the dressing room destroyed your testimony? And please, PADLOCKS is quite an overstatement. The keys to the lockers in the Portland temple are so small, I sometimes have a hard time finding mine if I have a couple of cough drops in my pocket.

I always laugh when the interrogations start about my story. The Mormon mind works wonders...when challenged, it goes straight to questioning the source, rather than the actual event. I guess it keeps the Mormon safe if they can somehow discredit the challenger...don't have to consider the possibility that the church is less than perfect!

Just so you can remain in your perfect bubble Charity, I won't answer your questions. There, now you're okay...you can imagine anything you want -- and I'm sure you will!

You shouldn't laugh Bish, after all, your story is just that...a story. I have become very leery over the years of anti or exmo "coming out" stories, for the simply reason that many of these contain thematic elements that have all the marks of being written by a committee. Not that they are, but that those thematic elements; urban legends that have grown up in the anti and exmormon world, are things that are supposed to happen to people in the Church that trigger "study" and finally apostasy. They get used over and over again, in slightly different combinations, and the overall effect is to impress upon the mind the idea of a conveyor belt churning out those romance novels all of which have essentially the same title, same cover art, and same...thematic elements. In a nutshell, much of this is clearly used as a template by many who didn't actually have the experiences they claim (even thought they may have, indeed, had some experience), but whose experiences are embeliishable within the template. Hence, the standard "how I left the Mormon Church" story that is part and parcel of places like RFM.

Historically, when confronted with an anecdote such as this, my first response is to roll my eyes and say, "uh huh". The reason for this is that if you story were true, it would be very irregular; a rather large lunge away from Priesthood responsibility for your leaders in that Stake. Abuse of one's family by a Priesthood holder, and especially sexual or physical abuses of any kind, are grounds for putative excommunication. These are sins for which one can be tried for one's membership in the Church. It is very serious. My dad was a Bishop for ten years. I've read all of the manuals, and I know how serious these things are from official Church sources.

If your leaders didn't take those claims seriously, that would be very, well, strange. I've never known a Bishop who did not take this kind of thing with extreme seriousness. I've been called to account, in no uncertain terms, by leaders in Wards I've lived in for less than this.

By the way, how do you know the claims were true? Were they ever researched and investigated? What were the individual situations? Not that something didn't happen that you were involved with, but might there not be some convenient exaggeration and embellishment going on here?

An SP who responded to claims of sexual abuse by Priesthood holding husbands as you claim would be so utterly outrageous, by Church doctrinal and cultural standards, that it probably would have merited GA intervention. Outrageous things do happen in Wards, I know that from personal experience, but when they do, it doesn't bother my testimony any. After all, why should it? Human beings who do not live up to the standards of the Gospel are no more or no less than just that. None of this, even if your story is true in every particular, involves the Church being true, only some members being untrue to the Church.

[_Moniker]

There is a time when tension builds up. It gets increasingly intense, the abuser starts and the abuse escalates. When the victim perceives that nothing she is doing is decreasing the intensity and when the tension is unbearable, she will d something to provoke an attack. (Make something for dinner he doesn't like etc.) Then there is a severe abusive incident "which is all her fault for making cacaroni and cheese." He becomes repentant, apologizes, brings gifts, makes promises. etc. There is a period of relative calm until tension begins to build. That is the cycle.

Oh! My! Goodness! The victim provokes the attack? OMG!

Yanno, what Charity, I should be able to do ANYTHING I damn well please and NOT expect to be beaten for it. If I do something that pisses my husband off and he attacks me HE is the one that attacked. It is HIS responsibility. If HE can not control himself that is not MY fault -- or ANY woman's fault. Most of these women tip toe for years... become meeker, more subservient... it is when they DO get a backbone, do stand tall that the aggression may increase. OR on the other hand the meeker they become the more they are ridiculed for being precisely what the man has beaten her into. Either way, it is not her fault.

[_truth dancer]

OK... the following statement helps me figure out from where Charity comes.

If you knew anything about abusive relationships, you would know that the hardest thing to do is to get the woman to DECIDE to leave the abusive relationship. To press charges against her abuser. Get a grip.

Charity... there is not a reputable, honorable, ethical therapist who deals with abuse in the Country who believe it is her or his job to "get the woman to DECIDE to leave the abusive relationship."

You seriously have a bizarre and odd perspective/understanding when it comes to counseling. Thankfully you never had actual clients or patients.

Women who are survivors of abuse do not need one more person to tell them what to do.

~dancer~

[_Jersey Girl]

td and Moniker,

Jussec. When I read charity's comments the first time, I took them the exact same way that you did. On reflection, I don't think that's what she meant at all. I think she was pointing to triggers, not intentional provocation. Something that the husband (in this scenario) thinks was an infraction, not that the event (dinner) was a valid form of provocation or reason for the escalation.

Just saying.

[_Coggins7]

The Mormon mind works wonders...when challenged, it goes straight to questioning the source, rather than the actual event.

This is a very nice ploy Bish, as you know perfectly well that your...uh...story can never be checked for its veracity. We have no event. Hence, we have your "why I left the Church" story, which isn't all that different form a hundred other cookie cutter versions of, what is for the most part, the same thing.

Yours is one version of the still popular mysongynist-white-male-Priesthood-leaders-who-protect-other-white-male-Priesthood-leaders-from-Church-discipline-when-they abuse-their-wives-and-children template. This is a standard liberal/feminist template that posits the leadership of a Ward of Stake as an "old boys club" of misogynistic tyrants who shield each other from moral and social accountability for their horrid treatment of their wives and children. You can watch feminist retro seventies fantasies of this kind all through the year on Oxygen and Lifetime.

[_Jersey Girl]

charity,

I made a request to you further up in the thread. Could you address power/control issues and weapons of power and control in an abusive relationship?