Scratch, DCP, and the IRS

[_Rollo Tomasi]

... or anyone else here.

I don't think so. And I have reason to believe I am right and you are not.

As you wish ....

Then report him/them. Do you need the 800 number? I'm sure it's on irs.gov.

Do I report him for not being forthcoming on this bb? Again, I think the Form 990 is accurate. No need to report that to the IRS.

It's my board too, Rollo. And I can comment on you stinking it up.

Just as I can tell you to read something else if you can't handle it.

[_Jersey Girl]

Rollo, with all due respect, this thread is piffle. Horse manure. Bullshaloney. Pure unaltered garbage. Put up or shut the hell up. Either report him or let it go.

Yeah, what harm said. It's bullscheise.

(Daniel's not the only one who speaks a foreign language around here;-), I can cuss, get it through the censor and show off all at the same time.)

[_Mister Scratch]

Are *you* now going to apologize and concede that, in fact, you have not "proved" that the $20,000 was paid to BYU? Because, I have maintained all along, aside from DCP's "testimonial," there is no evidence that this happened.

I will concede that Dan Peterson testified that the 20k was not paid to him but rather to BYU. His word is good enough for me. If this is the case then the 990 was fine. But he could be lying through his teeth. Somehow though I doubt he is.

You're a good man, Jason. Let's pause and summarize things a bit. My whole inquiry into all of this stems from a number of remarks that Dr. Peterson has made over the course of several years. In particular, I am thinking of this:

First, I'm not paid "directly by the Mormon Church" at all. I'm paid by Brigham Young University, as are all other professors and staff at the University (including those who are not Latter-day Saints). Thus, at best, I'm indirectly paid by the Mormon Church. This is less dramatic than your formulation, but it’s more accurate.

Second, no part of my salary -- absolutely none, not a dime -- comes from my apologetic undertakings.

(emphasis mine)

http://www.shields-research.org/Critics ... ymus01.htm

Now, given everything we have learned, would you say that the bolded statement was accurate? If the $20,000 was paid to DCP in lieu of his "salary," so that he could function as "Chair of FARMS", then what does that mean? I'm genuinely interested in hearing what you think about this.

Later, others asked me about this "accountant," apparently thinking that *I* was the one responsible for connecting these publicly available 990 forms with an "incompetent" accountant.

It wasn't me, though:

And yes, I'm willing to stick with what I personally know about my personal finances over your interpretation of an accountant's statement -- and particularly so if, as I suspect, this was an accountant whom we fired shortly thereafter for incompetence and non-performance of duties.

(emphasis added; this is from the thread "Part II: BKP's Reply to Historians?")

So, again, Jason---I'm not really sure why you are getting after me about this. I wasn't the one issuing odd statements about "not one dime" of my salary going towards Mopologetics, nor was I the one who suggested that an "incompetent" accountant may have handled the 990 forms in question.

[_harmony]

I wasn't the one issuing odd statements about "not one dime" of my salary going towards Mopologetics...

FARMS does not equal Mopologetics. The two are not synonymous.

[_Mister Scratch]

I wasn't the one issuing odd statements about "not one dime" of my salary going towards Mopologetics...

FARMS does not equal Mopologetics. The two are not synonymous.

Do you think that, during his tenure on the board of FARMS, that DCP had nothing whatsoever to do with Mopologetics? I.e., that he did not edit FARMS Review, and that he did not contribute his usual quota of editorials and articles?

[_Jason Bourne]

I'm referring to Part VIII on Schedule A attached to FARMS's 1998 Form 990 (on page 6 of Schedule A); sorry for any confusion. This Part VIII is entitled "Information Regarding Transfers to and Transactions and Relationships with Noncharitable Exempt Organizations.

I am sorry. I am just looking at a blank form on the IRS's web page. I do not see any requirement for an attachment called Schedule A. Do you still have the link to the actual 990 for the FARMS 990 so I can look it over again. I have misplaced it.

[_harmony]

Do you think that, during his tenure on the board of FARMS, that DCP had nothing whatsoever to do with Mopologetics? I.e., that he did not edit FARMS Review, and that he did not contribute his usual quota of editorials and articles?

I didn't say he had "nothing whatsoever to do with Mopologetics". I said FARMS and Mopologetics are not synonymous, they are not the same thing. There is more to FARMS than the FROB. And there is more to FROB than Mopologetics.

And I don't care, personally, if he gets paid by the word. It's not an issue with me. Personally, I think he should get paid, and handsomely.

[_Daniel Peterson]

And the Scartch goes on.

First, I'm not paid "directly by the Mormon Church" at all. I'm paid by Brigham Young University, as are all other professors and staff at the University (including those who are not Latter-day Saints). Thus, at best, I'm indirectly paid by the Mormon Church. This is less dramatic than your formulation, but it’s more accurate.

Second, no part of my salary -- absolutely none, not a dime -- comes from my apologetic undertakings.

(emphasis mine)
Now, given everything we have learned,

What, exactly, have you "learned"?

would you say that the bolded statement was accurate?

It was accurate.

If the $20,000 was paid to DCP in lieu of his "salary," so that he could function as "Chair of FARMS"

I was never paid $20K so that I could function as chairman of the FARMS board. My department never received $20K so that I could serve as chairman of the FARMS board.

My successor as chairman of the FARMS board was the dean of engineering. No money was ever transferred to his department or college so that he could be released to serve as chairman of the FARMS board. He continued to serve as dean of engineering while he was chairman of the FARMS board.

What was then FARMS and is now the Maxwell Institute made an arrangement with my home department -- as is commonly done, at BYU and elsewhere, and as I have explained at least eight or ten different times -- so that I could edit and direct the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative. The Middle Eastern Texts Initiative has absolutely nothing to do with apologetics. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

I wasn't the one issuing odd statements about "not one dime" of my salary going towards Mopologetics

There's nothing "odd" about the statement, which was and is entirely true.

nor was I the one who suggested that an "incompetent" accountant may have handled the 990 forms in question.

I don't know whether the 990 forms were properly filled out or not. And, frankly, at this point, I don't care. That was ten years ago.

What I do know is that I was never paid $20,000.00 to serve as the chairman of the FARMS board, and that my department never received $20,000.00 for my service as chairman of the FARMS board. So if that's what the IRS form says, it's wrong. But Jason gives me reason to suspect that that isn't what the IRS form says.

Do you think that, during his tenure on the board of FARMS, that DCP had nothing whatsoever to do with Mopologetics? I.e., that he did not edit FARMS Review, and that he did not contribute his usual quota of editorials and articles?

Scartch's allusion to my "usual quota of editorials and articles" points to the error in his reasoning here: I edited the FARMS Review and wrote editorials and articles prior to my service as chairman of the board of FARMS and prior to my membership on the FARMS board and have continued to do so since stepping down as chairman of the board of FARMS and since the dissolution of the FARMS board. Most members of the FARMS board never edited anything for FARMS; some never even wrote anything for FARMS. Which plainly shows that my editing of the FARMS Review and my authoring of FARMS editorials and articles were and are quite distinct from my service as chairman of the FARMS board and from my service as a member of that board.

Moreover, during my tenure on the FARMS board, I "had to do with" serving in campus wards and stakes, raising my family, teaching Sunday School, serving on the Church's Gospel Doctrine writing committee, and many other things. But I wasn't paid for them, and I certainly wasn't paid by FARMS for them. Which demonstrates that "having to do with" things while serving on the FARMS board doesn't mean that there is necessarily any intrinsic or significant connection between them and service on the board of FARMS.

I said FARMS and Mopologetics are not synonymous, they are not the same thing. There is more to FARMS than the FROB. And there is more to FROB than Mopologetics.

Harmony gets it.

Scartch doesn't -- or, at least, pretends not to.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I love Dan

!!!!!!!

CFR!

I've never, ever, caught so much as a distant glimpse of even the slightest flickering trace of a scintilla of a hint of a suggestion of even a weak bit of inconclusive evidence that would make that claim even remotely plausible.

[_harmony]

I love Dan

!!!!!!!

CFR!

I've never, ever, caught so much as a distant glimpse of even the slightest flickering trace of a scintilla of a hint of a suggestion of even a weak bit of inconclusive evidence that would make that claim even remotely plausible.

Perhaps in a global love of all mankind sort of thing.