Question about the Race/Lineage ban.

[_Darth J]

Is it still too subtle that "DESCENT" AND "LINEAGE" ARE SYNONYMS FOR "RACE"?

Race has nothing to do with the ban. We are all children of Adam no matter what our skin color according to the doctrine. Was he white or black? Does it matter? Of course not. Where in LDS doctrine does it say that people with black skin are inherently inferior?

Yep. Still too subtle.

By the way, nothing in official LDS doctrine precludes promiscuous gay sex, and the law of chastity has nothing to do with sexual behavior.

[_bcspace]

Yep. Still too subtle.

More like self delusional for Darth J

By the way, nothing in official LSD doctrine precludes promiscuous gay sex, and the law of chastity has nothing to do with sexual behavior.

FIFY

[_Themis]

Race has nothing to do with the ban. We are all children of Adam no matter what our skin color according to the doctrine. Was he white or black? Does it matter? Of course not. Where in LDS doctrine does it say that people with black skin are inherently inferior?

Although we could show many statements that do talk about being inferior, I have already shown you the definition of racist that does not include anything abou6t being inferior. I think you know this, which is why I think you are being dishonest. Race has everything to do with it. The church taught that the black race were decedents of Cain, and because of this they were banned from receiving the priesthood until 1978.

[_bcspace]

Oh, right, because a black man in 1965 made the choice for Cain to murder Abel. And also he made a choice before he was born---which he doesn't remember---to not be as excited about the Plan of Salvation as the rest of the human race. Free agency means being cursed because of a choice you don't remember making.

You joined this conversation late so you can be excused here. We have already gone over the fact that one's choices can affect generations. Numbers 14:18 for example. The consequences of choices can last generations and sometimes God applies consequences Himself as per the various Biblical examples. Doesn't mean succeeding generations have to answer for Abel's murder.

Why should you be damned for rejecting the priesthood, since the priesthood confers no superiority?

Because it's a commandment which implies choice.

[_bcspace]

Race has nothing to do with the ban. We are all children of Adam no matter what our skin color according to the doctrine. Was he white or black? Does it matter? Of course not. Where in LDS doctrine does it say that people with black skin are inherently inferior?

Although we could show many statements that do talk about being inferior,

If you could I think you would have by now.

I have already shown you the definition of racist that does not include anything abou6t being inferior

There has been no official discrimination based on skin color in the LDS Church. Skin color is merely incidental to the reason for the ban.

[_Themis]

Race has nothing to do with the ban. We are all children of Adam no matter what our skin color according to the doctrine. Was he white or black? Does it matter? Of course not. Where in LDS doctrine does it say that people with black skin are inherently inferior?

Although we could show many statements that do talk about being inferior,

If you could I think you would have by now.

I didn't because that is not the issue here. We both know this is true.

There has been no official discrimination based on skin color in the LDS Church. Skin color is merely incidental to the reason for the ban.

Oh great. You respond with two sentences which say the opposite. I said the ban was based on race or if you like descent. They both say the same thing. This race was discriminated from receiving the priesthood which is exactly part of the definition of racist I posted from the dictionary. You are just trying to move the goal post with skin color now.

[_Darth J]

Oh, right, because a black man in 1965 made the choice for Cain to murder Abel. And also he made a choice before he was born---which he doesn't remember---to not be as excited about the Plan of Salvation as the rest of the human race. Free agency means being cursed because of a choice you don't remember making.

You joined this conversation late so you can be excused here.

I was in this thread before you talked about Numbers 14, and you responded to me. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22087&start=63 Since your various theories have no internal coherence, however, it is not very surprising that you cannot keep track of what is going on in this thread, either.

We have already gone over the fact that one's choices can affect generations. Numbers 14:18 for example. The consequences of choices can last generations and sometimes God applies consequences Himself as per the various Biblical examples. Doesn't mean succeeding generations have to answer for Abel's murder.

Of course they have to live with the consequences of Abel being more righteous because he was in a blood sacrifice cult, and Cain murdering him because God didn't like his vegetable sacrifices. However, I am always edified when I think that the self-serving tribal mythology and schadenfreude of the ancient Hebrews explain why it was perfectly fine for 19th and 20th century white Mormons to dress up their racism with religious overtones.

By the way, why wasn't it just the third and fourth generation of the descendants of Cain who were denied the priesthood, per Number 14:18?

Why should you be damned for rejecting the priesthood, since the priesthood confers no superiority?

Because it's a commandment which implies choice.

Aside from your circular reasoning, why should you be damned for rejecting the priesthood, since the priesthood confers no superiority?

[_SteelHead]

Race had nothing to do with the ban? Right....

Ok lets re-word it: "The ban has everything to do with race."

Is that more acceptable to you?

[_Darth J]

Cain = kills one righteous person

Lamanites = obliterate an entire civilization of righteous people

Cain's descendants = denied the priesthood until 1978

Lamanites' descendants = never denied the priesthood


And that is because.........

[_Darth J]

Race had nothing to do with the ban? Right....

Ok lets re-word it: "The ban has everything to do with race."

Is that more acceptable to you?

The law of chastity has nothing to do with sex.

The Word of Wisdom has nothing to do with smoking or drinking.

Tithing has nothing to do with money.