It truly boggles my mind that the party of birtherism and Pizzagate have the audacity to call proper and responsible reporting on ongoing convictions a massive conspiracy theory and something that needs to be dealt with and punished accordingly.
Exactly this. We have a few of these folks posting on this board. I don’t know how to afford them any integrity any more, but they seem not to care about integrity anyway.
And not that I believe whataboutism is effective as a debate strategy, but my guess is that regardless of whatever complaints or faux rage these sorts of folks will ever level at any Democratic Party candidate in the future, those rants can most likely be simply and effectively dismissed with a straight-faced reply of, “Trump. ‘Nuff said.”
canpakes wrote:And not that I believe whataboutism is effective as a debate strategy, but my guess is that regardless of whatever complaints or faux rage these sorts of folks will ever level at any Democratic Party candidate in the future, those rants can most likely be simply and effectively dismissed with a straight-faced reply of, “Trump. ‘Nuff said.”
If a Trumper wants to point out just about any flaw in any candidate, it's legitimate to point out they can't be serious and that they don't really care about that flaw, because they accepted it with Trump. They'll actually have to argue the merits of policy (and good luck to them with that).
There are consequences to surrendering the illusion of the moral high ground.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Perfume on my Mind wrote:There are consequences to surrendering the illusion of the moral high ground.
They pretty much shat on it and laughed before surrendering whatever high ground that they thought they inhabited.
Because, to these folks, having integrity isn’t nearly as important as believing that if they can trash their own integrity, then that might make a liberal sad somewhere.
SteelHead wrote:Meanwhile I'm just over here in a corner watching as our entire political system has been hijacked by big business, lobbyists and well heeled donors to the point where public opinion on a matter makes no matter on its passage, and the theatrics are just the equivalent of the roman circus keeping the masses distracted.
While I completely agree with the point that the system is being disproportionately influenced by big business, etc., etc., I'd quibble a bit with the role of public opinion. I agree that when it comes to actual legislation this is areal problem. But in the case of what is going on terms of the political process as theater? I'd argue the opposite. The problem is the roman circus aspect of politics super-charged by social media leaves fewer and fewer adults in the room with any meaningful voice that is being heard and able to influence rational behaviors that can be translated into functional democratic processes. People as mobs aren't great deciders nor is the public known for dispassionate, wait-and-see approaches to news. We're letting that become the means the people participate in both government and information sharing.
I agree with that, but I think there is a deliberate effort from both parties to make the conflict more important than the issues behind the conflict. A desire to deflect folk into fighting over wedge issues in order to distract from what is occurring behind the curtain.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
When Jersey Girl titled this topic MUELLER REPORT JUST DROPPED, it was in the period before AG Barr had sent his letter to Congress. I think in those hours there was the anticipation that it would drop somewhere where we would ultimately see it.
The Mueller Report dropped, but it actually landed out of sight, behind the curtain of a 4 page summary. It's like there was only one review of Lord of the Rings trilogy, describing it as struggle over ownership rights to a piece of jewelry. True, that's one possible perspective, but other people could find other parts of the story more important.
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization." - Will Durant "We've kept more promises than we've even made" - Donald Trump "Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist." - Edwin Land
That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did... You deserved it.
- Trump
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
You might think it’s okay that the Russians offered dirt on the Democratic candidate for president as part of what’s described as the Russian government’s effort to help the Trump campaign. You might think that’s okay.
You might think it’s okay that when that was offered to the son of the president, who had a pivotal role in the campaign, that the president’s son did not call the FBI, he did not adamantly refuse that foreign help — no, instead that son said he would ‘love’ the help with the Russians.
You might think it was okay that he took that meeting. You might think it’s okay that Paul Manafort, the campaign chair, someone with great experience running campaigns, also took that meeting. You might think it’s okay that the president’s son-in-law also took that meeting. You might think it’s okay that they concealed it from the public. You might think it’s okay that their only disappointment after that meeting was that the dirt they received on Hillary Clinton wasn’t better. You might think it’s okay. I don’t.
You might think it’s okay that, when it was discovered a year later that they had lied about that meeting and said it was about adoptions, you might think it’s okay that the president is reported to have helped dictate that lie. You might think it’s okay. I don’t.
You might think it’s okay that the campaign chairman of a presidential campaign would offer information about that campaign to a Russian oligarch in exchange for money or debt forgiveness. You might think that’s okay. I don’t.
You might think it’s okay that that campaign chairman offered polling data, campaign polling data, to someone linked to Russian intelligence. I don’t think that’s okay.
You might think it’s okay if the president himself called on Russia to hack his opponent’s emails, if they were listening. You might think it’s okay that, later that day, the Russians in fact attempted to hack a server affiliated with that campaign. I don’t think that’s okay.
You might think that it’s okay that the president’s son-in-law sought to establish a secret back-channel of communication with Russians through a Russian diplomatic facility. I don’t think that’s okay.
You might think it’s okay that an associate of the president made direct contact with the GRU through Guccifer 2.0 and WikiLeaks, that is considered a hostile intelligence agency.
You might think it’s okay that a senior campaign official was instructed to reach that associate and find out what that hostile intelligence agency had to say, in terms of dirt on his opponent.
You might think it’s okay that the national security adviser-designate secretly conferred with a Russian ambassador about undermining U.S. sanctions, and you might think it’s okay he lied about it to the FBI.
You might say that’s all okay. You might say that’s just what you need to do to win. But I don’t think it’s okay. I think it’s immoral, I think it’s unethical, I think it’s unpatriotic and, yes, I think it’s corrupt, and evidence of collusion.
And I’ll tell you one more thing.
I don’t think it’s okay that during a presidential campaign Mr. Trump sought the Kremlin’s help to consummate a real estate deal in Moscow that would make him a fortune. According to the special counsel, hundreds of millions of dollars. I don’t think it’s okay that he concealed it from the public. don't think it's okay he advocated a new and more favorable policy towards the Russians, even as he was seeking the Russian's help, the Kremlin’s help, to make money. And I don't think it's okay that his attorney lied to our committee about it.
There is a different word for that than collusion and it's called compromised.
But, maybe that's just the old Mormon in me speaking...
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
You might think it’s okay that the Russians offered dirt on the Democratic candidate for president as part of what’s described as the Russian government’s effort to help the Trump campaign. You might think that’s okay.
You might think it’s okay that when that was offered to the son of the president, who had a pivotal role in the campaign, that the president’s son did not call the FBI, he did not adamantly refuse that foreign help — no, instead that son said he would ‘love’ the help with the Russians.
You might think it was okay that he took that meeting. You might think it’s okay that Paul Manafort, the campaign chair, someone with great experience running campaigns, also took that meeting. You might think it’s okay that the president’s son-in-law also took that meeting. You might think it’s okay that they concealed it from the public. You might think it’s okay that their only disappointment after that meeting was that the dirt they received on Hillary Clinton wasn’t better. You might think it’s okay. I don’t.
You might think it’s okay that, when it was discovered a year later that they had lied about that meeting and said it was about adoptions, you might think it’s okay that the president is reported to have helped dictate that lie. You might think it’s okay. I don’t.
You might think it’s okay that the campaign chairman of a presidential campaign would offer information about that campaign to a Russian oligarch in exchange for money or debt forgiveness. You might think that’s okay. I don’t.
You might think it’s okay that that campaign chairman offered polling data, campaign polling data, to someone linked to Russian intelligence. I don’t think that’s okay.
You might think it’s okay if the president himself called on Russia to hack his opponent’s emails, if they were listening. You might think it’s okay that, later that day, the Russians in fact attempted to hack a server affiliated with that campaign. I don’t think that’s okay.
You might think that it’s okay that the president’s son-in-law sought to establish a secret back-channel of communication with Russians through a Russian diplomatic facility. I don’t think that’s okay.
You might think it’s okay that an associate of the president made direct contact with the GRU through Guccifer 2.0 and WikiLeaks, that is considered a hostile intelligence agency.
You might think it’s okay that a senior campaign official was instructed to reach that associate and find out what that hostile intelligence agency had to say, in terms of dirt on his opponent.
You might think it’s okay that the national security adviser-designate secretly conferred with a Russian ambassador about undermining U.S. sanctions, and you might think it’s okay he lied about it to the FBI.
You might say that’s all okay. You might say that’s just what you need to do to win. But I don’t think it’s okay. I think it’s immoral, I think it’s unethical, I think it’s unpatriotic and, yes, I think it’s corrupt, and evidence of collusion.
And I’ll tell you one more thing.
I don’t think it’s okay that during a presidential campaign Mr. Trump sought the Kremlin’s help to consummate a real estate deal in Moscow that would make him a fortune. According to the special counsel, hundreds of millions of dollars. I don’t think it’s okay that he concealed it from the public. don't think it's okay he advocated a new and more favorable policy towards the Russians, even as he was seeking the Russian's help, the Kremlin’s help, to make money. And I don't think it's okay that his attorney lied to our committee about it.
There is a different word for that than collusion and it's called compromised.
But, maybe that's just the old Mormon in me speaking...
- Doc
Maybe not you personally but I think what scares Democrats is not Russia gaining leverage somehow on the US but the possibility of the border actually being enforced and welfare checks being delayed. The only way for them to stop such a horrendous and inhumane outcome was for Obama to set up the deep state to overturn the 2016 election and get rid of Trump anyway they could.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
ajax18 wrote:The only way for them to stop such a horrendous and inhumane outcome was for Obama to set up the deep state to overturn the 2016 election and get rid of Trump anyway they could.
