The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2011

[_RayAgostini]

Ray:

Please tell me what I should do in order for this board to become more to your liking.

Frankly, you need more rules. What you have here now isn't "free speech", it has become the freedom to slander character. I posted this on Facebook yesterday:

Australian News Commentary.

But please note:

AJA Code of Ethics.

We are not journalists, but every one of those principles of ethical commentary could apply to us, if we are fair-minded.

What really happens here is anarchy, slander and character-assassination, and that's what you call "free speech".

[_Drifting]

What really happens here is anarchy, slander and character-assassination, and that's what you call "free speech".

like this?

I really once thought you were intelligent. Maybe you are, but you have a huge chip on your shoulder

[_RayAgostini]

I've underlined the bit I think Ray may struggle with, based on some of his dialogue with posters here.

You haven't been here very long, have you? No, didn't think so.

No one here throws insults? When a pit bull attacks you, do you offer it sponge cake?

Your posts demonstrate exactly what I'm talking about - this one-sided view that those on your "side" can do no wrong, but you continually point the finger at anyone not on your "side", for the same offenses you turn a blind eye to on "your side".

That's exactly what's wrong with this board.

[Guest]

Are you equating negativity with lack of intelligence

.

I did the opposite, actually.

You have your jihad 'til death, so perhaps I have mine. No, they joined due to fear mongering. It's why we buy insurance policies too. Only JSJr can't deliver the coverage he and his organization are still being paid premiums for. Mormonism extracted two years of my life, it extracted any semblance of normalcy from my life until I was age 26…..Maybe. Maybe I'm just trying to get dew off of yet believers' eyes so that they can open them and take a look at what they are really marching in lockstep and goose-stepping to. Maybe this 'mission' for truth on MDB is my own-self imposed penitence for having misled investigators and other people while I was on a Mormon mission.

Or maybe you just need to keep convincing yourself you made the right decision. Or maybe you just like an audience. You left at 26? How old are you now?

Let's just say, my eyes have been open now longer than they were closed.

Smell the roses. Not everyone needs to be heroically rescued as per your “mission”. Think of something more positive you can contribute to the world. That would the best thing you can do before you go to the place from which no one returns.

Oh, since you seem to spurn my current mission, show me where you've been ragging on the LDS Church for its missionary program. In your even-handedness, I am sure you would hold the same view that not everyone needs to be heroically rescued as per its missionary program, right?

You see, I am contributing something positive to the world, I am shedding light on facts that the LDS Church wants kept hidden. BKP, the next in line and current Pres of 12, said as much when he admonished, 'let it alone'. Perhaps it is the LDS Church that needs to think of something more positive it can contribute to the world.

It's all perspective, Ray. One Church's "positive" is from my perspective that Church misleading and lying to people, and pilfering 10% from their pockets while it does so.

By shedding light on the actual facts of Mormonism, I am enabling people to see it for the sham it is. I am helping liberate them. I know from your perspective, that is 'negative'. But in my view, it is a moral imperative. I do not concede the moral high ground to a corrupt organization that whitewashes its background. Not even to the Mormon Church.

[_Dr. Shades]

Please tell me what I should do in order for this board to become more to your liking.

Frankly, you need more rules.

Please tell me which rules I should implement.

[_Kishkumen]

If Ray can come here and say pretty much whatever he wants, and Darth J can come here and say pretty much whatever he wants, then I don't see what the problem is. Is it a pretty rough environment? Yes. But I don't see that MDD-style moderation works all that well. Frankly, I don't see what the fuss is about. The people who enjoy this rough and tumble place stay. Those who don't leave. It is a self-selecting environment.

I also refuse to believe that this place is inherently bad or inevitably corrupting. If it were, then Don Bradley may not have rejoined the LDS Church. Runtu has pretty much been the same guy he has always been, and my attitude towards Mormonism has actually improved over the years, in my opinion. All of this occurred while this board hummed merrily along and all of us were participating in it. I like this board, but I don't think it has the kind of amazing power that is being attributed to it in this exchange.

[_RayAgostini]

It's all perspective, Ray. One Church's "positive" is from my perspective that Church misleading and lying to people, and pilfering 10% from their pockets while it does so.

By shedding light on the actual facts of Mormonism, I am enabling people to see it for the sham it is. I am helping liberate them. I know from your perspective, that is 'negative'. But in my view, it is a moral imperative. I do not concede the moral high ground to a corrupt organization that whitewashes its background. Not even to the Mormon Church.

You haven't been very successful in "liberating" scholars like Dr. Peterson, Dr. Givens, or, heaven declare - D. Michael Quinn.

I'm sure Quinn welcomes you "liberating" him from the tentacles of Mormonism. Maybe he even considers you his "saviour from Mormonism" while he silently reads your posts?

[Guest]

I've underlined the bit I think Ray may struggle with, based on some of his dialogue with posters here.

You haven't been here very long, have you? No, didn't think so.

No one here throws insults? When a pit bull attacks you, do you offer it sponge cake?

Your posts demonstrate exactly what I'm talking about - this one-sided view that those on your "side" can do no wrong, but you continually point the finger at anyone not on your "side", for the same offenses you turn a blind eye to on "your side".

That's exactly what's wrong with this board.

No, you mistake me.

I really do not mind the insults from either side, I view it as cut and thrust. When it becomes a personal attack the moderators take care of it. I have reported a number of posts of that nature from posters of any persuasion - they've all been dealt with as per the rules of the board or I have been told why they weren't dealt with.

In fact, this board has become a much less petty place since the likes of Pahoran, Schryver, DCP etc have disappeared. I will go further and say that now, the very personal attacks almost always start with something from Droopy, Simon or yourself. You are right in suggesting that might be my biased opinion, but feel free to point out evidence to counter that view.

It's your hypocracy that I find smelly.

This board is brilliant in that you are allowed to discuss things, question things, challenge things, point out lies and false statements, vigorously scrutinise Mormonism - something you are not allowed to do either in Church nor over the street on you know where.
Here you can laugh, poke fun, rant, shout, snarl, love etc.

The people who left did so because they couldn't stand the scrutiny of their statements and posts and not for any other reason.

If you dislike it so much, why are you still here posting?
People choose to do whatever suits them best.
What suits you best is to come here and moan, it's what you like to do.
And guess what - here you can!

[_RayAgostini]

If it were, then Don Bradley may not have rejoined the LDS Church.

Don's last personal prophecy before he left this board was that it would fall. He was absolutely battered here, for the smallest things. Is it really any wonder why we've lost such brilliant minds?

[_Kishkumen]

I think all human organizations are riddled with problems and "warts." I don't see the LDS Church as a particularly egregious example. In fact, it provides a lot of positive things for those who feel they benefit from the organization. We are free to participate or free to leave. The last thing I want to do is convince the happy LDS person that they should not be happy as an LDS person.