Why did I ever read beyond the slaying of Laban?

[_Tchild]

If there is a god, you seem to suggest that He leaves us without any way of knowing the truth for sure...we're just on our own, and hopefully we are lucky enough to get it right. Now that, I reject.

I have said this lately in a couple of threads that this is a dangerous idea. One that sees people being murdered and raped in the name of God. Many of these people think they are talking to God or receiving information from his spirit, and that following what God tells them Trump's everything else.

Of course it is dangerous. It is very dangerous. It is the violence of the majority over the minority. The majority's belief in a set of God dictates is what empowers that group to impose those beliefs and values involuntarily upon others, just as Joseph Smith expressed that belief with his fictional Nephi, slaying a "wicked" Laban. In fiction it is merely disturbing. In practice (muslims stoning blasphemers) it is extremely dangerous. I do not believe that Mormons would act out those beliefs in a real world scenario (probably because they are not the majority power), but they do retain it in principal.

Look at how the FLDS act towards their believers as the majority power. It is almost total abuse and exploitation of the powerful over the weak...all done in the name of God and God's "authority". Sickening.

[Guest]

Of course it is dangerous. It is very dangerous. It is the violence of the majority over the minority. The majority's belief in a set of God dictates is what empowers that group to impose those beliefs and values involuntarily upon others, just as Joseph Smith expressed that belief with his fictional Nephi, slaying a "wicked" Laban. In fiction it is merely disturbing. In practice (muslims stoning blasphemers) it is extremely dangerous. I do not believe that Mormons would act out those beliefs in a real world scenario (probably because they are not the majority power), but they do retain it in principal.

Look at how the FLDS act towards their believers as the majority power. It is almost total abuse and exploitation of the powerful over the weak...all done in the name of God and God's "authority". Sickening.

Did those at MMM believe they were doing God's will. They were LDS. Did they pray about it first and get what they believe as confirmation from the HG. Millions of people have this dangerous thinking, which means you will always get a small number doing some horrible things thinking God told me to do it. We see it in the news all the time.

[_Hades]

If you're bad, God may kill you. If you're good, God may kill you. At any time God may just kill you. god is the biggest mass murderer of all time, but that's good.

[_sock puppet]

So, like I said before, murder isn't evil. It's just an arbitrary rule God set up. Thanks for confirming that for us.

Disobeying the Lord is evil. The act of ending someones mortal life isn't inherently evil...the reasons can be. If the Lord commands us not to eat apples, and we do anyway, that is evil. The act of eating the apple isn't inherently so.

Too bad that Nephi did not have the moral courage to do as Rage Against the Machine lyrics suggest and tell the Mormon god 'I won't do what you tell me':

Killing in the name of!
Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses

Killing in the name of!
Killing in the name of

And now you do what they told ya
Well now you do what they told ya

Those who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
You justify those that died by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses
Uggh!

Killing in the name of!
Killing in the name of

And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya, now you're under control
And now you do what they told ya!

Those who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
You justify those that died by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
Come on!

Yeah! Come on!

F**k you, I won't do what you tell me
Motherf**ker!
Uggh!

But then both elohim and Nephi are merely figments of the imagination of JSJr.

[_Chap]

See?

Hitler not killed = God's plan fulfilled.

Laban killed = God's plan fulfilled.

God's plans are always fulfilled, praise his name!!!!

(How do we know what God's plans are? Simple. Whatever happens is his plan. So he always succeeds!!! Isn't it marvellous?)

Were you expecting any serious response from me to this...?

No more than when I laugh at the clowns in a circus I am expecting them to come over to me at the ringside and explain why what they are doing makes sense.

You are operating a fail-safe system of post hoc justification of anything you believe to be the actions of your deity. If you believe he wanted Laban killed, you can find a good reason why he wanted things to happen that way, and did not want any of the plausible alternatives. If he did not want Hitler killed, you can find a good reason why he wanted things to happen that way, and did not want any of the plausible alternatives.

It is always possible to do find justification that way, after the event. The only problem is that this way of thinking fails to tell us anything at all about the likely actions of your deity in future, since it only works in hindsight. It explains precisely nothing.

[_Gordon]

And I say, that G-d does not lead any man to kill another, for whatever rationale. The HG has confirmed that to me whether you believe it or not.

Like I said, there can be only one...

Now we are just going in circles.

Then I will tell you that the HG has confirmed to me that you need to repent, do five hundred push-ups and drink three gallons of hot coffee. Hey, it is God's will, revealed to me for you!

In your foolish, and irrelevant, remark, you seem to miss that Nephi didn't tell Laban that G-d wanted him dead, so he had better go hang himself. My remarks applied to knowing truth regarding another, not telling someone else what to do because G-d told me so.

[_Gordon]

The point is Gordon, God gives contradictory commands. Do you have any explanation for that other than the laughably circular reasoning of "Whatever God says is good because God says it"?

No, the point is that G-d is the final say. Nephi was not to go about killing anyone he wished. It would be like me telling my children not to get into the cookie jar (no cookies), yet I allow them to have one for dessert. They know they aren't allowed to have cookies without permission, but under certain circumstances, they can have cookies.

Well.....that's creepy.

It's 'creepy' that I'm not afraid of death? Ok.

[_Gordon]

No, and since there is no objective way to know who is right, there must be a system of human society that understands that no one has the right to claim to speak on God's behalf for another when it involves violating that person's free agency and self-determination.

Do you not see your double standard here? An all-knowing, just, moral, and righteous being can't decide one's fate, but sinful, immoral, and pathetic humans can in a 'human society'?

Stop it Gordon, now you are scaring me. So, we are back to the Muslims and stoning an 11 year. old Christian girl. You do not approve, but they claim authority from God. So, there cannot be only one God. There must be multiple Gods or such a thing could never be.

There is only one G-d, regardless of what other people claim. You argue against truth because evil people use G-d as an excuse for evil deeds. Which is more likely to come from the Lord; killing a little girl because she ripped up a book, or an evil man who stole and attempted to murder innocent people which would have prevented millions of people from possible Salvation? Just because one kills in the Lord's name, doesn't mean it's from Him...nor does the behavior of evil men negate the actual commands of G-d for righteous purposes.

[_Gordon]

I have said this lately in a couple of threads that this is a dangerous idea. One that sees people being murdered and raped in the name of God. Many of these people think they are talking to God or receiving information from his spirit, and that following what God tells them Trump's everything else.

The flip side, is that the argument that evil people do evil deeds on their own using G-d's name as justification negates G-d actually commanding people to do things some will disagree with. If I say the sky is green with purple polka dots, while you say it is blue, my lie (or delusion) shouldn't automatically make your word suspect or untrustworthy.

[_SteelHead]

Gordon says he is sorry for us, for our loss of faith.

I am sorry for him.

He seems to not value human life. Not Laban's, nor the child of David and Bathsheba. Then he is dismissive of the lives of his children. And then his own.