Young Earth Creationism in the LDS Church

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_Uncle Dale
_Emeritus
Posts: 3685
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:02 am

Re: Young Earth Creationism in the LDS Church

Post by _Uncle Dale »

Chap wrote:...
It will do nobody but Tobin any harm...



Oh, I'm happy to be harmed, if that harm teaches
me the truth.

Lucifer reportedly swept Jesus up to the pinnacle
of the Jerusalem temple, and showed him all the
kingdoms of the world.

I'm impressed by that claim. If quantum entanglement
explains how Satan can read my mind and tempt me
from afar, I'm ready to have my conclusions harmed
by that revelation.

I just wonder why Elohim and Jehovah bothered to
descend down through the clouds, to commune
with young Joe, when they could have simply used
quantum entanglement to teleport to Manchester.

???

Ready to be harmed, right back into Mormonism....

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: Young Earth Creationism in the LDS Church

Post by _Chap »

Uncle Dale wrote:
Chap wrote:...
It will do nobody but Tobin any harm...



Oh, I'm happy to be harmed, if that harm teaches
me the truth.

Lucifer reportedly swept Jesus up to the pinnacle
of the Jerusalem temple, and showed him all the
kingdoms of the world.

I'm impressed by that claim. If quantum entanglement
explains how Satan can read my mind and tempt me
from afar, I'm ready to have my conclusions harmed
by that revelation.

I just wonder why Elohim and Jehovah bothered to
descend down through the clouds, to commune
with young Joe, when they could have simply used
quantum entanglement to teleport to Manchester.

???

Ready to be harmed, right back into Mormonism....

UD


Enjoy! but maybe start a new thread? This one is supposed to be about "Young Earth Creationism in the LDS Church". I think you need one called "Tobin's cosmological theology" or some such.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_huckelberry
_Emeritus
Posts: 4559
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:29 am

Re: Young Earth Creationism in the LDS Church

Post by _huckelberry »

DrW,
I enjoyed the photographs and examples you have presented so far on this thread. There is such a wealth of observations which could be pointed to for your proposal. It is hard to know where to begin or to end for that matter.

I have wondered about what would be the best way to present the geological story. I would be happy if that story was better understood in our society. It is a bit puzzling that it is not more of the normal world view than it is in this age when education should spread the understanding of science broadly through our society.

I have imagined what sort of television presentation of the story of the earth could draw viewers into looking beyond party line assumptions. You have presented images which are striking and curious. They could draw curiosity toward some of the more technical investigations.

I imagine a story built upon the Pacific Northwest and the particulars of what has happened in one area. I could imagine an opening with an airplane journey up hells canyon observing the difference between thousands of feet of basalt laid down layer upon layer and the convoluted sedimentary rock found beneath the basalt. There are many details one can follow but the basalt layer can present the idea of geological ages which fit one cluster of events before the basalt while whole other cluster of events happened after. As I understand the idea of related ages of events are the basic discoveries of geology. The more technical study like radioactive isotope dating have made clarification but they are not the foundation.

I am sure none of this is new to you but I thought to mention it just to wonder about strategies to communicate geology.

My imaginary presentation is also part of a slow personal coming to terms with basalt. I was a child who collected rocks when my family moved to eastern Washington. I found all rocks every where to be the same dark brittle fracturing basalt. Basalt basalt everywhere not a thing to find. As a child I thought the arrangement unfair. Older I have found there is some interest to be found in the stuff.
_ludwigm
_Emeritus
Posts: 10158
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:07 am

Re: Young Earth Creationism in the LDS Church

Post by _ludwigm »

huckelberry wrote:There is such a wealth of observations ...


[#img] http://wumocomicstrip.com/img/strip/-WM ... -05-04.gif[/img]
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_DrW
_Emeritus
Posts: 7222
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 am

Re: Young Earth Creationism in the LDS Church

Post by _DrW »

huckelberry wrote:DrW,
My imaginary presentation is also part of a slow personal coming to terms with basalt. I was a child who collected rocks when my family moved to eastern Washington. I found all rocks every where to be the same dark brittle fracturing basalt. Basalt basalt everywhere not a thing to find. As a child I thought the arrangement unfair. Older I have found there is some interest to be found in the stuff.


Huckleberry,

I agree that Eastern Washington is a great place to see the effects of geological forces. The fact that there is little natural vegetation and ground cover makes it easier to appreciate as well.

Basalt formations aren't all bad for rock hounds. There are areas where mineral laden water seeping through voids in fractured or vesicular basalt (mainly the latter) slowly leaves silica deposits that eventually build up to form agates.

In Idaho, some of these are released by erosion (or by highway construction) and make their way into the Snake RIver from which some are eventually deposited with the gravel where the river course turns at places like Farewell Bend near the Idaho / Oregon border.

My kids and I have scored an oatmeal box full of very nice, mainly white, agates at Farewell Bend in just a few hours of hunting when the river level is low in summer just after the spring run-off. We would always plan our trips with an agate hunting stop at Farewell Bend State Park.

In general, I found Eastern Washington to be a great place to go rock hunting. One can find obsidian, Ellensburg blue agates (probably rare now), and a lot of jasper, petrified wood, now and now and then even an arrowhead. Some of this material arrived after having been washed down from the Cascades and elsewhere and deposited there to be found in rock quarries, road cuts, river banks, etc.

If one looks a the literature on agates formed in basalts, the age of the basalt formations in question is often in the tens to hundreds of millions of years.

Wonder how YECs would explain the presence of large agates in basalt. Agate formation is a very slow process.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
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