It is only a sample size of one, but my TBM wife said that if the allegations are true, the brethren did something morally wrong. Her expectations were that her tithing was not being hoarded. Of course, she definitely has above-average moral reasoning skills for a member of the church!
I would have felt the same way as an active member. As a former member, I feel like the Church’s priorities are askew. At the same time, I often have the sense that maybe I did not really know or understand the LDS Church when I was a member. I assumed, wrongly it seems, that the LDS Church practices its own teachings on helping the poor to the fullest extent of its capability of doing so.
The thing that really baffles me about all of this is not the amount of money, which, when placed aside the many assets of the Church is indeed quite large, but the obscurity of the purpose. The best explanation I have seen, right here on MDB, is that the Church is preparing for a time when its membership is so tilted to the poor of the developing world that it can’t hope to sustain its operations with tithing. In that case, they are probably wise to amass this money.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
So the next question for the brethren is why so much money? Is it because they see hard times ahead due to disaffection? Is it so they can gain a little financial power so that what they say with respect to moral politics has more sway? Certainly, what the church says on the subject of marriage or other similar types of legislation has more sway than the pastor that has 20 adherents and whose church is almost bankrupt. E. Oaks and his religious freedom/sour grapes issue has some legs due to his church's louder blowhorn. But the real power comes in corporate governance and financial issues. If the church has $100 Billion in investments, it could affect what companies do here and there. If it had $1 Trillion under management, its voice would be louder still.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Where are they investing their money? Is it going to Joe McConkie's pet project or Sally Nelson's or Frank Oaks'? Are they investing in companies that make it easier to spy on the members so the SCMC can better know who might be the next agitator or what the issues may be? What's the church's relationship to the NSA down the street? Is this even an issue?
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
All of these questions are really great, and I think the response to them would be, regardless of what kinds of sounds escape their lips or letters are typed on their keyboards, "None of your business."
I nevertheless share your curiosity.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
They will say "none of your business" and so let the speculation and rumors run wild until these jacka$$es open up.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Exiled wrote:They will say "none of your business" and so let the speculation and rumors run wild until these jacka$$es open up.
They will only open up the books if it is financially advantageous for them to do so. In other words if they think the negative impact of secrecy is costing them more than transparency does. I think that point is only achievable if there are so many leaks about finances they conclude they are gaining nothing by keeping it secret.
It will be a policy decision driven by gain.
Christ would be so proud.
By they way, those past and present employees for this fund who actually remarked about the allegations were mostly concerned about the "optics" of the situation, rightly so in my opinion. As others have pointed out, $100 Billion is not so unusual for even an individual these days let alone a large corporation like the Church, but that is not the problem. The problem comes in when the average TBM considers the size of that surplus and decides his/her tithing isn't desperately needed by the chuch and chooses to pay his or her bills before paying tithing. It is now quite obvious that the Church really doesn't need the money and surely God will understand that the cow is in the mire.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
I have a friend that ran a third party campaign for public office some time ago. He was polling around 10% and wasn't going to win. Yet, the powers that be summoned him to an interview where they demanded to know his goals and strategies. They wanted to know if he was a friend or foe. Is the church a friend or foe to the population at large? Are they taking advantage of the dark political money laws that allow secret contributions to flow here or there? They were all over Prop 8 and the marriage issue. With their financial might, they will progressively be a bigger and bigger political player, if that is where they want to go with the current religious freedom nonsense Oaks is pushing. He is lamenting how supposedly churches are losing their political clout due to his loss in the marriage arena. It is more evidence that the church wants to use its position to push its politics on everyone.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Exiled wrote:They will say "none of your business" and so let the speculation and rumors run wild until these jacka$$es open up.
They will only open up the books if it is financially advantageous for them to do so. In other words if they think the negative impact of secrecy is costing them more than transparency does. I think that point is only achievable if there are so many leaks about finances they conclude they are gaining nothing by keeping it secret.
It will be a policy decision driven by gain.
Christ would be so proud.
By they way, those past and present employees for this fund who actually remarked about the allegations were mostly concerned about the "optics" of the situation, rightly so in my opinion. As others have pointed out, $100 Billion is not so unusual for even an individual these days let alone a large corporation like the Church, but that is not the problem. The problem comes in when the average TBM considers the size of that surplus and decides his/her tithing isn't desperately needed by the chuch and chooses to pay his or her bills before paying tithing. It is now quite obvious that the Church really doesn't need the money and surely God will understand that the cow is in the mire.
Yes, the questioning and the financially suffering member may not have much of an incentive to sacrifice after learning of the big war chest the church has amassed. Who wants to clean church toilets this Saturday? Yet, the church seems to want to continue to have this war chest grow and grow. It may not be out of the ordinary today, but what about in 50 years? Let's look at the church goals, now, while they are in the cradle so to speak? Agitate to get these "profits" to open up. Embarrassment works.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
