Actual Ex-Mo Predators

[Dwight]

I got the impression she was valuable to the company. Perhaps I read that wrong.

Rosebud felt her in-person conferences were valuable and important. They may have helped people deal with the trauma and transition out of Mormonism healthier, but they never paid for themselves and relied on the donations for the podcast which did a good job of informing people of different aspects of Mormonism. The conferences were in the dozens, the podcast was in the thousands, if not tens of thousands of listens. The podcast was orders of a magnitude more important to the mission.

[IWMP]

I got the impression she was valuable to the company. Perhaps I read that wrong.

Rosebud felt her in-person conferences were valuable and important. They may have helped people deal with the trauma and transition out of Mormonism healthier, but they never paid for themselves and relied on the donations for the podcast which did a good job of informing people of different aspects of Mormonism. The conferences were in the dozens, the podcast was in the thousands, if not tens of thousands of listens. The podcast was orders of a magnitude more important to the mission.

Thanks for explaining.

[Dwight]

Also just to clarify I don’t care for JD much. I just don’t think I, or anyone, has to invent or exaggerate. JD can be problematic without being toxic or a predator.

[Marcus]

... The abuse of power didn't happen until after the breakdown of the relationship...

I disagree strongly with that. That's not how abuse of power happens.

[IWMP]

... The abuse of power didn't happen until after the breakdown of the relationship...

I disagree strongly with that. That's not how abuse of power happens.

Can you explain?

Why do you disagree? How does abuse of power happen?

I didn't perceive that she was punished at work during the relationship. It appears that when the relationship broke down that's when it became problematic. I may be wrong and am happy to admit that.

I find it hard to get my head around how you express these things. I'm not being mean or rude, I hope it doesn't sound like I am. I keep coming across the same barriers of understanding when we end up in the same conversations about harassment/abuse/sexism. It's like I can't quite grasp how you see these things. You have strong energy and strong views on these things which isn't a problem. I'm not sure how to express what I'm trying to express. I want to understand.

I understand abuse of power to be, using leverage, position or authority to manipulate a situation for your gain.

I don't think merely being in a relationship on different power levels is enough to call it abuse. Do you?

I'll try scenarios, see if I can visualise it differently.

Let's say a student teacher relationship. Adult student. I know from TV shows that that is considered innapropriate and gives opportunity for abuse of power. I can see how abuse of power can happen in that situation.

How would mutual attraction in that situation become abusive? I'd think, if the teacher was encouraging anything the student wasn't mutually happy with with perhaps an unstated, unspoken consequence. The student may assume she will be punished somehow if she doesn't do whatever the teacher wants because of the nature of the power difference. Perhaps unconsciously even if the teacher hasn't stated any consequences. This is the closest I can visualise it being an abuse of power but is an unspoken, uninsinuated, psychological expectation in the mind of the student enough to assume the teacher is abusing that power if the teacher isn't doing anything other than having a relationship?

[Marcus]

I disagree strongly with that. That's not how abuse of power happens.

Can you explain?

Why do you disagree? How does abuse of power happen?

I didn't perceive that she was punished at work during the relationship. It appears that when the relationship broke down that's when it became problematic. I may be wrong and am happy to admit that.

I find it hard to get my head around how you express these things. I'm not being mean or rude, I hope it doesn't sound like I am. I keep coming across the same barriers of understanding when we end up in the same conversations about harassment/abuse/sexism. It's like I can't quite grasp how you see these things. You have strong energy and strong views on these things which isn't a problem. I'm not sure how to express what I'm trying to express. I want to understand.

I understand abuse of power to be, using leverage, position or authority to manipulate a situation for your gain.

I don't think merely being in a relationship on different power levels is enough to call it abuse. Do you?

I'll try scenarios, see if I can visualise it differently.

Let's say a student teacher relationship. Adult student. I know from TV shows that that is considered innapropriate and gives opportunity for abuse of power. I can see how abuse of power can happen in that situation.

How would mutual attraction in that situation become abusive? I'd think, if the teacher was encouraging anything the student wasn't mutually happy with with perhaps an unstated, unspoken consequence. The student may assume she will be punished somehow if she doesn't do whatever the teacher wants because of the nature of the power difference. Perhaps unconsciously even if the teacher hasn't stated any consequences. This is the closest I can visualise it being an abuse of power but is an unspoken, uninsinuated, psychological expectation in the mind of the student enough to assume the teacher is abusing that power if the teacher isn't doing anything other than having a relationship?

The 'relationship', according to her statements, included someone sneaking into her room to orally and digitally use her body, while requiring her to publically not acknowledge they were involved, because he didn't want his wife or anyone else to know. She was naïve enough to think this was an actual relationship, but it wasn't. That's why I disagree that the 'abuse of power' didn't happen only AFTER everything ended. The entire situation was abusive, and she lost her job over it, which Dehlin ensured would happen.

Regarding your scenario about adult students and teachers, please read any University's policy on that, rather than getting your information from TV shows. A good one will explain exactly why it is considered problematic.

[drumdude]

The 'relationship', according to her statements, included someone sneaking into her room to orally and digitally use her body, while requiring her to publically not acknowledge they were involved, because he didn't want his wife or anyone else to know.

It’s unfortunate that she didn’t lead with this. It took around a decade for her to produce that concrete claim. I now know that this is common in situations of abuse, to not be able to communicate what happened effectively. But it makes it very difficult for someone to judge the truth versus a potential false story.

[Marcus]

The 'relationship', according to her statements, included someone sneaking into her room to orally and digitally use her body, while requiring her to publically not acknowledge they were involved, because he didn't want his wife or anyone else to know.

It’s unfortunate that she didn’t lead with this. It took around a decade for her to produce that concrete claim. I now know that this is common in situations of abuse, to not be able to communicate what happened effectively. But it makes it very difficult for someone to judge the truth versus a potential false story.

Agreed. It's an incredibly difficult situation to judge, for the exact reason you stated.

[Bond]

Somehow I found myself on Rosebud's (who has doxxed herself many times it appears but I won't) Facebook and she says she studied psychology at Harvard. Did she mean she was studied by psychologists at Harvard or?

Also I can't help but now think that inside the Predator of many movies was the 6 ft several inches John Dehlin:

[IWMP]

The 'relationship', according to her statements, included someone sneaking into her room to orally and digitally use her body, while requiring her to publically not acknowledge they were involved, because he didn't want his wife or anyone else to know. She was naïve enough to think this was an actual relationship, but it wasn't. That's why I disagree that the 'abuse of power' didn't happen only AFTER everything ended. The entire situation was abusive, and she lost her job over it, which Dehlin ensured would happen.

Regarding your scenario about adult students and teachers, please read any University's policy on that, rather than getting your information from TV shows. A good one will explain exactly why it is considered problematic.

Thank you. I see what you mean.