God can write straight with crooked lines.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

The gospel is so simple.

As a missionary, I wish I had access to this simple flowchart. It’s true, the beauty of the gospel really is found in its simplicity.



https://mollymuses.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... your-soul/

[Limnor]

Good point.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is simple. And we make it so complicated.

Jacob 4:

8 Behold, great and marvelous are the works of the Lord. How unsearchable are the depths of the mysteries of him; and it is impossible that man should find out all his ways. And no man knoweth of his ways save it be revealed unto him; wherefore, brethren, despise not the revelations of God.

9 For behold, by the power of his word man came upon the face of the earth, which earth was created by the power of his word. Wherefore, if God being able to speak and the world was, and to speak and man was created, O then, why not able to command the earth, or the workmanship of his hands upon the face of it, according to his will and pleasure?

10 Wherefore, brethren, seek not to counsel the Lord, but to take counsel from his hand. For behold, ye yourselves know that he counseleth in wisdom, and in justice, and in great mercy, over all his works.

11 Wherefore, beloved brethren, be reconciled unto him through the atonement of Christ, his Only Begotten Son, and ye may obtain a resurrection, according to the power of the resurrection which is in Christ, and be presented as the first-fruits of Christ unto God, having faith, and obtained a good hope of glory in him before he manifesteth himself in the flesh.

12 And now, beloved, marvel not that I tell you these things; for why not speak of the atonement of Christ, and attain to a perfect knowledge of him, as to attain to the knowledge of a resurrection and the world to come?

13 Behold, my brethren, he that prophesieth, let him prophesy to the understanding of men; for the Spirit speaketh the truth and lieth not. Wherefore, it speaketh of things as they really are, and of things as they really will be; wherefore, these things are manifested unto us plainly, for the salvation of our souls. But behold, we are not witnesses alone in these things; for God also spake them unto prophets of old.

Regards,
MG

By “good point” I was referring to your point about there being nothing to engage with here.

But I’ll submit the following, in an attempt to explain why your biblical quotes don’t work:

If we are part of one Body now under one Head, why would that same Body become permanently tiered later?

[Limnor]

The gospel is so simple.

As a missionary, I wish I had access to this simple flowchart. It’s true, the beauty of the gospel really is found in its simplicity.



https://mollymuses.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... your-soul/

Yep simples.

You know what I pictured when MG posted from Jacob?

In the middle of a deep discussion about metaphysics, Obi-Wan MG waves his hand and says “these aren’t the metaphysical questions you’re looking for…move along and trust Joseph” like it’s somehow convincing lol

[MG 2.0]

If we are part of one Body now under one Head, why would that same Body become permanently tiered later?

Ephesians 4:5

One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

John 14:1-2

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

A modern day Prophet, Spencer W. Kimball said:

”The age-old concept of heaven and hell is erroneous. It is not true that there is but one dividing line between heaven and hell and that all who barely fail to reach heaven will be doomed to a fire and brimstone hell, and conversely untrue, that all who are just a little better than the condemned ones will go to a common heaven, there equally to play harps or to sing praises eternally. This is a false concept. The scriptures have made it clear that every soul will pay penalties for evil deeds and receive rewards for good deeds and all will be judged according to their works. They will not be put into two categories but in as many as there are individuals who have different degrees of accomplishment and performance, and this is just. Think for one moment how unjust it would be to put all law-breakers-the murderer, adulterer, thief, and car-parking violator-in the same penitentiary with the same punishments, deprivations, and the same period to serve; how unjust to put in the same world [of] development and happiness and glory the person who has merely confessed the name of Christ with all those who not only confessed it but lived his every commandment and perfected their lives and became godlike in all their attributes. God is just.”

How do you, as a Christian, see yourself in the afterlife? Say in comparison with an active Latter-day Saint who professes the name of Jesus Christ and has participated in the covenants/ordinances of the church? Do you see gradations in the next world or are you more comfortable with the concept of one Heaven and one Hell?

What kind/type of baptism is the "one baptism" being referred to in Ephesians?

If Heaven isn't "tiered", how do you see it? Who are the folks that go to Hell? Muslims? Catholics? Buddhists? Hindus? Mormons?

You do believe in Hell, right? There are so many baptisms and modes of baptism among Christians. Are they all "saving" or equally valid in the eyes of God?

Regards,
MG

[Limnor]

If we are part of one Body now under one Head, why would that same Body become permanently tiered later?

Ephesians 4:5

One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

John 14:1-2

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

A modern day Prophet, Spencer W. Kimball said:

”The age-old concept of heaven and hell is erroneous. It is not true that there is but one dividing line between heaven and hell and that all who barely fail to reach heaven will be doomed to a fire and brimstone hell, and conversely untrue, that all who are just a little better than the condemned ones will go to a common heaven, there equally to play harps or to sing praises eternally. This is a false concept. The scriptures have made it clear that every soul will pay penalties for evil deeds and receive rewards for good deeds and all will be judged according to their works. They will not be put into two categories but in as many as there are individuals who have different degrees of accomplishment and performance, and this is just. Think for one moment how unjust it would be to put all law-breakers-the murderer, adulterer, thief, and car-parking violator-in the same penitentiary with the same punishments, deprivations, and the same period to serve; how unjust to put in the same world [of] development and happiness and glory the person who has merely confessed the name of Christ with all those who not only confessed it but lived his every commandment and perfected their lives and became godlike in all their attributes. God is just.”

How do you, as a Christian, see yourself in the afterlife? Say in comparison with an active Latter-day Saint who professes the name of Jesus Christ and has participated in the covenants/ordinances of the church? Do you see gradations in the next world or are you more comfortable with the concept of one Heaven and one Hell?

What kind/type of baptism is the "one baptism" being referred to in Ephesians?

If Heaven isn't "tiered", how do you see it? Who are the folks that go to Hell? Muslims? Catholics? Buddhists? Hindus? Mormons?

You do believe in Hell, right? There are so many baptisms and modes of baptism among Christians. Are they all "saving" or equally valid in the eyes of God?

Regards,
MG

Is that your answer to my question about one Body becoming tiered later?

[MG 2.0]

Ephesians 4:5

…
John 14:1-2

…
A modern day Prophet, Spencer W. Kimball said:

…
How do you, as a Christian, see yourself in the afterlife? Say in comparison with an active Latter-day Saint who professes the name of Jesus Christ and has participated in the covenants/ordinances of the church? Do you see gradations in the next world or are you more comfortable with the concept of one Heaven and one Hell?

What kind/type of baptism is the "one baptism" being referred to in Ephesians?

If Heaven isn't "tiered", how do you see it? Who are the folks that go to Hell? Muslims? Catholics? Buddhists? Hindus? Mormons?

You do believe in Hell, right? There are so many baptisms and modes of baptism among Christians. Are they all "saving" or equally valid in the eyes of God?

Regards,
MG

Is that your answer to my question about one Body becoming tiered later?

Will that do? Would another answer be more relevant? I would be interested in your responses to my questions.

Regards,
MG

[Limnor]

Is that your answer to my question about one Body becoming tiered later?

Will that do? Would another answer be more relevant? I would be interested in your responses to my questions.

Regards,
MG

Well I mean it doesn’t answer the question. But ok I’ll work on a response, though I’m not sure it matters much as your questions back seem to be more rhetorical than exploratory.

[MG 2.0]

Will that do? Would another answer be more relevant? I would be interested in your responses to my questions.

Regards,
MG

Well I mean it doesn’t answer the question. But ok I’ll work on a response, though I’m not sure it matters much as your questions back seem to be more rhetorical than exploratory.

Along with your answers to the questions I've asked I would be interested in having you show how I didn't answer your question.

Regards,
MG

[Limnor]

Well I mean it doesn’t answer the question. But ok I’ll work on a response, though I’m not sure it matters much as your questions back seem to be more rhetorical than exploratory.

Along with your answers to the questions I've asked I would be interested in having you show how I didn't answer your question.

Regards,
MG

This was my question: If we are part of one Body now under one Head, why would that same Body become permanently tiered later?

I think your response is “mansions?” Please clarify if that is so, because it isn’t clear.

But here you go:

I believe there is one heaven—Union with God—and understand “mansions” to be dwelling places within God, and it reads like there will be varying degrees of reward or glory within that one heaven. I don’t see heaven as an ontological separation in a tiered construct.

I generally think of hell the way most Christians would think of it—a firey place of eternal torment, but there are glimpses of other understandings of the final end place of the damned. Gehenna and Sheol are mentioned, and the firey lake. The text isn’t as clear about who finally ends up there. I believe salvation is through Christ, but I trust God’s justice and mercy in how that is applied with regard to who is saved. In Romans, gentiles are mentioned who show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, so I’m not quick to determine who goes where. C.S. Lewis thought hell as more self-exclusion than assignment, and I lean toward that understanding.

“One baptism” refers to incorporation into Christ, whether through water or by the Spirit—I lean toward the idea that Jesus baptizes with the fire and Holy Spirit and away from water baptism automatically resulting in regeneration. So baptism, as I see it, is a sign and seal of union with Christ, but salvation rests in Christ himself, not in the act of “correct denomination” or institutionally authorized membership or baptism.

Did I answer everything you wanted?

[MG 2.0]

Along with your answers to the questions I've asked I would be interested in having you show how I didn't answer your question.

Regards,
MG

This was my question: If we are part of one Body now under one Head, why would that same Body become permanently tiered later?

I think your response is “mansions?” Please clarify if that is so, because it isn’t clear.

But here you go:

I believe there is one heaven—Union with God—and understand “mansions” to be dwelling places within God, and it reads like there will be varying degrees of reward or glory within that one heaven. I don’t see heaven as an ontological separation in a tiered construct.

I generally think of hell the way most Christians would think of it—a firey place of eternal torment, but there are glimpses of other understandings of the final end place of the damned. Gehenna and Sheol are mentioned, and the firey lake. The text isn’t as clear about who finally ends up there. I believe salvation is through Christ, but I trust God’s justice and mercy in how that is applied with regard to who is saved. In Romans, gentiles are mentioned who show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, so I’m not quick to determine who goes where. C.S. Lewis thought hell as more self-exclusion than assignment, and I lean toward that understanding.

“One baptism” refers to incorporation into Christ, whether through water or by the Spirit—I lean toward the idea that Jesus baptizes with the fire and Holy Spirit and away from water baptism automatically resulting in regeneration. So baptism, as I see it, is a sign and seal of union with Christ, but salvation rests in Christ himself, not in the act of “correct denomination” or institutionally authorized membership or baptism.

Did I answer everything you wanted?

Yep! Thanks.

Regards,
MG