Are you pro life?

[Chap]

Laws cannot be made on the basis of a multitude of exceptions - i.e. if you have been raped you can have a gun, or you can have a gun if you are afraid of burglars. You have to weigh up the overall benefit or disbenefit to society as a whole in loosening or tightening gun control laws.

I notice that some Americans rarely seem to bother to look at the experience of other countries with different laws from their own. I have lived in a number of countries where private gun ownership is heavily restricted, and in which homicide levels are 1/4 to /1/5 of those in the US. There is no pressure in those countries from groups of women who say they need firearms to feel safe, and few people in those countries would feel safer if their societies changed into ones with the comparatively large number of firearms possessed by (some) ordinary people in the US.

We may mention, of course, that only three in ten adult Americans own a gun of any kind. Twice as many men as women own guns, and the rate of gun ownership amongst whites falls drastically as educational attainment rises:

Like the gender gap, the education gap in gun ownership is particularly pronounced among whites. Overall, about three-in-ten adults with a high school diploma or less (31%) and 34% of those with some college education say they own a gun; a quarter of those with a bachelor’s degree or more say the same. Among whites, about four-in-ten of those with a high school diploma or less (40%) or with some college (42%) are gun owners, compared with roughly a quarter of white college graduates (26%). There is no significant difference in the rate of gun ownership across educational attainment among nonwhites.

See: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-tren ... ownership/

[Some Schmo]

I think the problem with guns in America has to do with the culture, not the laws. A minority percentage of Americans fetishize guns. Until you can convince these people not to sleep with their guns, you'll never have laws to get rid of them.

But yes, calling a gun a tool is like calling a crucifix or an electric chair a tool. Technically speaking, yes, it's a tool to help you kill easier. For people who use the butt of their gun as a hammer, I highly recommend loading it and switching the safety off first to get the most out of that tool.

[drumdude]

Those countries which have banned guns may have a much lower homicide rate for a variety of reasons. It is a correlation, not necessarily a causation.

[Res Ipsa]

Those countries which have banned guns may have a much lower homicide rate for a variety of reasons. It is a correlation, not necessarily a causation.

No, but that's often used as an excuse to dismiss the data. When you have a correlation combined with a plausible mechanism, there is a reasonable basis to form a hypothesis that warrants serious investigation.

[Xenophon]

No, but that's often used as an excuse to dismiss the data. When you have a correlation combined with a plausible mechanism, there is a reasonable basis to form a hypothesis that warrants serious investigation.

And often those willing to dismiss that correlation also are the first to reject other solutions, such as embracing other countries successful approaches for tackling systemic poverty or prison reform.

[Res Ipsa]

No, but that's often used as an excuse to dismiss the data. When you have a correlation combined with a plausible mechanism, there is a reasonable basis to form a hypothesis that warrants serious investigation.

And often those willing to dismiss that correlation also are the first to reject other solutions, such as embracing other countries successful approaches for tackling systemic poverty or prison reform.

It's like how the tobacco companies dismissed evidence of the causal relationship between smoking and cancer.

[Sledge]

No, my wife and kids have never needed to use a firearm for self defense. Why does that matter? Are you saying we shouldn't prepare for the worst??

Living is accepting a certain amount of risk. If you always prepare for the worst, regardless of the probability, you would hunker down in a shelter somewhere and never leave. It is extremely improbable, as evidenced by the historical data you just submitted, that your wife would need to use a gun in self defense. Depending on where you live, your wife is probably more likely to get struck by lightning--does she wear a non-conductive rubber suit everywhere she goes? Why not prepare for the worst?

Your wife is far far more likely to get injured in an automobile incident, yet I assume she still drives a car. Why aren't you preparing for the worst?

You see, we need to weight risk, benefit, and probability when considering guns. You will never need to use a gun for self defense; it's extremely rare. Yet it is more likely that the gun will be discovered by a child and the unthinkable happens. Guns are extremely dangerous, and they provide no benefit.

Ok! Now you answer my question. What should my wife do if a 200lbs man breaks into our house and wants to cause her bodily harm?

Won't happen.

Here's another one. What about the woman that experienced a rape in the past and feels more comfortable with a fire arm in the night stand, are you saying you want to take away her freedom to protect herself??

I recommend pepper spray.

Here's a rape victim that chose to carry a firearm after being trained how to use it. What you're telling me is, you want to deny her the right to protect herself?
https://youtu.be/RiSQ3vNTJTU

Nope. There are plenty ways to be safe and to protect oneself without carrying a dangerous death machine.

[Jersey Girl]

Nope. There are plenty ways to be safe and to protect oneself without carrying a dangerous death machine.

That ^^^^. And we've talked about self safety measures at length on the old board. with regard to to the breaking and entry. Get a house security system, for starters. Speaking only for myself, if I were to try to shoot a 200 lb. male intruder in my home, the guy could get over on me in 2 seconds flat and dick me away with my own gun unless I were firing from inside a closet through a slight opening in the door. All things considered, in that scenario I'm plenty sure that I would end up being the victim of my own efforts.

[Some Schmo]

The thing I always think about regarding these home invasion fantasies is, if there's a stranger brave enough to come uninvited into someone's home, they've probably done it many times before, and would likely stay a lot calmer when confronted than the home owner doing the confronting. My guess is that people suck at shooting guns when they are scared shitless because a stranger broke in.

In short, I highly doubt these scenarios turn out like gun advocates want us all to imagine.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

… dick me away with my own gun …

Freudian slip?

- Doc