Apologists Harassing Critics

[_Res Ipsa]

What frankly frustrated me about BOTH you and Grindael is that neither one of you was willing to just put each other on Ignore. This was after SEVERAL posters, some in Moderation management and some not, made the strong suggestion to do so. Why weren't either of you just willing to TRY that suggestion? If you didn't like it, you could always quit. But it would have been nice if you had at least been able to have given it a try, and seen if that had made a difference.

Hi Jesse, back a while ago I did just that. It didn't work. The poster in question would come into threads that I was participating on and make multiple postings that I was blind to. It's sort of a handicap while having a conversation with others to have someone come in and say whatever...and you don't even know what they're saying. So yeah, I could have UN ignored him to see what he's saying, etc., but then I might as well not have him on ignore.

That's why the commitment I made last Wednesday.

I could/would still see what he was coming up with and saying on the threads that I was participating on and he jumps in. At least in my own mind I would know that he's either 'out to lunch' and others can probably see it too, or that he might have something that I ought to listen to, assimilate, and readjust my thinking and thus my comments, etc. Even though I would be somewhat handicapped in that I wouldn't be able to respond to him either directly or indirectly. But I was willing to live with it so as to avoid the kinds of things which were frequently occurring.

He would have actually had the advantage because he would have been able to say pretty much whatever he wanted to without response from me. And knowing him, he would readily do so. But then it would die a slow death when I couldn't respond back. Mission accomplished.

Not that I might have reported inappropriate stuff to the moderators.

Regards,
MG

Have you a link?

[_Res Ipsa]

Hello again.

The only way to test MG and possibly enforce Shade's ruling about one more time and it's the queue for MG--is for grindael to return to posting.

Just mentioning.

I didn't understand the ruling as applying solely to Grindael's threads or posts.

[_Dr. Shades]

For example, when grindael announced he was chosen to present at the Whitmer conference and showed us some of his research and mentalgymnast posted the below about his in real life, I made the mistake of defending grindael:

by the way, loser, we are already well aware that you don't believe in the Divine calling of Joseph Smith...so what's your point in preaching to the choir? You already know you're gonna just get high fives. So what's your point? Much ado about nothing, isn't it?

You're a loser, grindael. Ya, I know I just called you a loser. But the shoe fits.

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... w#p1017680

Going forward, I will simply report it, correct?

[MODERATOR NOTE:

HOLD EVERYTHING. You seem to be implying that we're asking you to report it but NOT respond to it. That's not the case.

You have every right to respond to a post like that by defending the original target if you wish. That's the nature of the board and the reason it exists. We only request that, if you wish for a moderator to do something about the attack, you report it IN ADDITION TO any response you make, because otherwise we might miss it or otherwise assume that nobody has a problem with it.

I hope that clears things up a little.]

[_Jersey Girl]

Hello again.

The only way to test MG and possibly enforce Shade's ruling about one more time and it's the queue for MG--is for grindael to return to posting.

Just mentioning.

I didn't understand the ruling as applying solely to Grindael's threads or posts.

grindael is his ongoing target.

Duh.

[_Lemmie]

For example, when grindael announced he was chosen to present at the Whitmer conference and showed us some of his research and mentalgymnast posted the below about his in real life, I made the mistake of defending grindael:

by the way, loser, we are already well aware that you don't believe in the Divine calling of Joseph Smith...so what's your point in preaching to the choir? You already know you're gonna just get high fives. So what's your point? Much ado about nothing, isn't it?

You're a loser, grindael. Ya, I know I just called you a loser. But the shoe fits.

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... w#p1017680

Going forward, I will simply report it, correct?

[MODERATOR NOTE:

HOLD EVERYTHING. You seem to be implying that we're asking you to report it but NOT respond to it. That's not the case.

You have every right to respond to a post like that by defending the original target if you wish. That's the nature of the board and the reason it exists. We only request that, if you wish for a moderator to do something about the attack, you report it IN ADDITION TO any response you make, because otherwise we might miss it or otherwise assume that nobody has a problem with it.

I hope that clears things up a little.]

Yes it does, and I appreciate your explanation very much. Thank you.

[_sock puppet]

Does anyone even read MG's posts anymore?

I see he has 6428 posts. I know I've not read more than say 400 of them over the years.

[_Res Ipsa]

What I see, historically based, is pure and simple baiting in a hope of an endless regression of back-n-forth with the intention of destroying the thread which he is successful in getting a bite.

For me to give him any benefit of the doubt that his posts in this thread are of any other intention, I would expect to see him taking some responsibility of his part in this giant pile of poo that has disrupted the board to such an extent. Some remorse, some apologies, some sincerity to change and to resolve the problem.

Other posters that historically brought a lot of issues to the board (there are only two that come to mind) had some serious emotional/mental issues. Is this what MG wants to claim here? Is this what the board wants to enable (think codependency)? Well, the boards experience in this arena seems to show that enabling the behavior is not the way to go. Seems than in any arena co-dependency is not that way to go.

So either way (true spam troller) or some weird emotional issue, this is NOT the place to enable either one.

I see your point in the last sentence, and I've flipped back and forth on that issue a bunch of times since Shades issued his ruling.

But since we're spitballing here, how do you think MG experiences his own behavior? Does his through process go something like: "Man, that Grindael is a huge threat to Mormonism. Any Mormons who wander in here are sure to lose their faith after they read his stuff. I must stop him. How can I do it? I know, I'll jump in and troll all his threads. He's sure to fall for my trolling, and so will all those other critics on the board. They'll dog pile on me and mess up Grindael's threads so much that no one will remember all the damaging stuff he's posted." Or is it something else? I know you don't think it matters with respect to board rules and punishment. But I'm curious about your perception.

[_fetchface]

But since we're spitballing here, how do you think MG experiences his own behavior? Does his through process go something like: "Man, that Grindael is a huge threat to Mormonism. Any Mormons who wander in here are sure to lose their faith after they read his stuff. I must stop him. How can I do it? I know, I'll jump in and troll all his threads. He's sure to fall for my trolling, and so will all those other critics on the board. They'll dog pile on me and mess up Grindael's threads so much that no one will remember all the damaging stuff he's posted." Or is it something else? I know you don't think it matters with respect to board rules and punishment. But I'm curious about your perception.

I think it is simpler than that. I think he gets something from having everyone's attention. What makes me think this is the case is some of the threads he starts; the grievance threads, the announcements of what he is going to start doing, etc. It takes a very over-inflated sense of importance to think anyone would care about those things, and some sort of narcissistic impulse to start a thread like that. I simply can't imagine doing that myself.

[_Jesse Pinkman]

I suppose that Rock was telling me to shut the hell up because he doesn't want to see me moderating again. First of all, the only reason I even suggested it is because it sounded like there was a problem with there being enough hands to handle a lot of the technical issues involving the site. That was main function when I moderated before.

No worries, Rock. I have a full-time job. I was trying to be nice. Frankly, I don't need the aggravation.

My request was for you to not respond to MG, nothing more.

Why not? What exactly were you afraid I would say that would categorize losing control?

I'm really not understanding where you're coming from, Rock. I don't think that MG and I have had any ill confrontations, and even if we had, that's really not your concern. The only thing I've ever suggested to MG, and I also suggested it to Grindael, who, for the record, I like very much, and I hope returns, is that he put Grindael on Ignore. This is the first I've heard about him actually attempting to put Grindael on Ignore. I didn't realize he had ever done so.

[_Jersey Girl]

I think it is simpler than that. I think he gets something from having everyone's attention. What makes me think this is the case is some of the threads he starts; the grievance threads, the announcements of what he is going to start doing, etc. It takes a very over-inflated sense of importance to think anyone would care about those things, and some sort of narcissistic impulse to start a thread like that. I simply can't imagine doing that myself.

He's self involved to the point that he doesn't realize that the community doesn't care what he's complaining about or planning to do.

I've said this a zillion times on the board. Human beings only repeat behaviors from which they profit.

What does he get out of trolling?

What does he get out of complaint threads?

What does he get out of announcing whatever plan he's putting in place?

I can follow my take on all of those questions if you like, but notice how the trolling leads to the other behaviors.

I believe the answer is right there.

His behaviors are repetitive enough to suggest a pattern.

It begins with trolling or baiting. And then what happens?

There's your answer. Again, I can give my own take if you want, but if you follow the pattern, I think the answer is clear.

And ask yourself, why would he persist in these behaviors if he didn't profit from them in some way?

He does profit from them.