Joshua 8:1-35 The Lord tells Joshua to not fear or be discouraged; take the entire army and go to A.I. --- to conquer. The king of A.I. and all of his people are in Joshua's hands. He is to do to them as with Jericho and her king ------ This time Israel may keep the bounty and the cattle. Before the main army left for A.I., Joshua sent thirty thousand of his bravest troops to hide in ambush close behind the city. The plan is that while the main army attacks, the men of A.I. will come out to fight as they did before, and the Israelites will run away. The Army of A.I. will chase after the Israelites. Then the smaller group of Isrealites will jump up from the ambush and enter the city, for the Lord has given it to Israel. The city is to be burned to the ground. So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of A.I.; but Joshua and the rest of the army remained in the camp at Jericho. Early the next morning Joshua with his men and started toward A.I., accompanied by the elders of Israel, and stopped at the edge of a valley north of the city. That night Joshua sent another five thousand men to join the troops in ambush on the west side of the city. He himself spent the night in the valley.
The king of A.I., seeing the Israelis across the valley, went out early the next morning and attacked at the plain of the Arabah. Joshua and the Israeli army fled across the wilderness as though badly beaten, and all the soldiers in the city were called out to chase after them; so the city was left defenseless; there was not a soldier left in A.I. or Bethel, and the city gates were left wide open.
And when the men in ambush saw Joshua's signal, they jumped up and poured into the city and set it on fire. When the men of A.I. looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. When Joshua and the troops who were with him saw the smoke, they knew that their men who had been in ambush were inside the city, so they turned upon their pursuers and began killing them. Then the Israelis who were inside the city came out and began destroying the enemy from the rear. So the men of A.I. were caught in a trap and all of them died; not one man survived or escaped, except for the king of A.I., who was captured and brought to Joshua.
When the army of Israel had finished slaughtering all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire A.I. population of 12000was wiped out that day. Only the cattle and the loot were not destroyed, for the armies of Israel kept these for themselves. So A.I. became a desolate mound of trash and was this even to the day the book of Joshua was compiled. Joshua hanged the king of A.I. on a tree until evening, but as the sun was going down, he took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. There he piled a great heap of stones over it, which can still be seen even to the day of the writing of the book of Joshua.
Joshua built an altar to the Lord God of Israel at Mount Ebal, as Moses had commanded in the book of his laws: “Make me an altar of boulders that have neither been broken nor carved,” the Lord had said concerning Mount Ebal. The priests offered burnt sacrifices and peace offerings to the Lord on the altar. And as all the people of Israel watched, Joshua carved upon the stones of the altar each of the Ten Commandments. Then all the people of Israel—divided into two groups, half of them standing at the foot of Mount Gerizim and half at the foot of Mount Ebal. Between them stood the priests with the Ark, ready to pronounce their blessing ---- according to the instructions given long before by Moses. Joshua then read to them all of the statements of blessing and curses that Moses had written in the book of God’s laws. Every commandment Moses had ever given was read before the entire assembly, including the women and children and the foreigners who lived among the Israelis.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Jehovah saith unto Joshua, `Fear not, nor be affrighted, take with thee all the people of war, and rise, go up to A.I.; see, I have given into thy hand the king of A.I., and his people, and his city, and his land,
2 and thou hast done to A.I. and to her king as thou hast done to Jericho and to her king; only, its spoil and its cattle ye spoil for yourselves; set for thee an ambush for the city at its rear.'
3 And Joshua riseth, and all the people of war, to go up to A.I., and Joshua chooseth thirty thousand men, mighty ones of valour, and sendeth them away by night,
4 and commandeth them, saying, `See, ye are liers in wait against the city, at the rear of the city, ye go not very far off from the city, and all of you have been prepared,
5 and I and all the people who [are] with me draw near unto the city, and it hath come to pass when they come out to meet us as at the first, and we have fled before them,
6 and they have come out after us till we have drawn them out of the city, for they say, They are fleeing before us as at the first, and we have fled before them,
7 and ye rise from the ambush, and have occupied the city, and Jehovah your God hath given it into your hand;
8 and it hath been, when ye capture the city, ye burn the city with fire, according to the word of Jehovah ye do, see, I have commanded you.'
9 And Joshua sendeth them away, and they go unto the ambush, and abide between Bethel and A.I., on the west of A.I.; and Joshua lodgeth on that night in the midst of the people.
10 And Joshua riseth early in the morning, and inspecteth the people, and goeth up, he and the elders of Israel, before the people to A.I.;
11 and all the people of war who [are] with him have gone up, and draw nigh and come in over-against the city, and encamp on the north of A.I.; and the valley [is] between him and A.I..
12 And he taketh about five thousand men, and setteth them an ambush between Bethel and A.I., on the west of the city;
13 and they set the people, all the camp which [is] on the north of the city, and its rear on the west of the city, and Joshua goeth on that night into the midst of the valley.
14 And it cometh to pass, when the king of A.I. seeth [it], that hasten, and rise early, and go out do the men of the city to meet Israel for battle, he and all his people, at the appointed season, at the front of the plain, and he hath not known that an ambush [is] against him, on the rear of the city.
15 And Joshua and all Israel [seem] stricken before them, and flee the way of the wilderness,
16 and all the people who [are] in the city are called to pursue after them, and they pursue after Joshua, and are drawn away out of the city,
17 and there hath not been left a man in A.I. and Bethel who hath not gone out after Israel, and they leave the city open, and pursue after Israel.
18 And Jehovah saith unto Joshua, `Stretch out with the javelin which [is] in thy hand towards A.I., for into thy hand I give it;' and Joshua stretcheth out with the javelin which [is] in his hand toward the city,
19 and the ambush hath risen [with] haste, out of its place, and they run at the stretching out of his hand, and go into the city, and capture it, and hasten, and burn the city with fire.
20 And the men of A.I. look behind them, and see, and lo, the smoke of the city hath gone up unto the heavens, and there hath not been in them power to flee hither and thither -- and the people who are fleeing to the wilderness have turned against the pursuer, --
21 and Joshua and all Israel have seen that the ambush hath captured the city, and that the smoke of the city hath gone up, and they turn back and smite the men of A.I.;
22 and these have come out from the city to meet them, and they are in the midst of Israel, some on this side, and some on that, and they smite them till he hath not left to them a remnant and escaped one;
23 and the king of A.I. they caught alive, and bring him near unto Joshua.
24 And it cometh to pass, at Israel's finishing to slay all the inhabitants of A.I. in the field, in the wilderness in which they pursued them (and they fall all of them by the mouth of the sword till their consumption), that all Israel turn back to A.I., and smite it by the mouth of the sword;
25 and all who fall during the day, of men and of women, are twelve thousand -- all men of A.I..
26 And Joshua hath not brought back his hand which he stretched out with the javelin till that he hath devoted all the inhabitants of A.I.;
27 only, the cattle and the spoil of that city have Israel spoiled for themselves, according to the word of Jehovah which He commanded Joshua.
28 And Joshua burneth A.I., and maketh it a heap age-during -- a desolation unto this day;
29 and the king of A.I. he hath hanged on the tree till even-time, and at the going in of the sun hath Joshua commanded, and they take down his carcase from the tree, and cast it unto the opening of the gate of the city, and raise over it a great heap of stones till this day.
30 Then doth Joshua build an altar to Jehovah, God of Israel, in mount Ebal,
31 as Moses, servant of Jehovah, commanded the sons of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses -- an altar of whole stones, over which he hath not waved iron -- and they cause to go up upon it burnt-offerings to Jehovah, and sacrifice peace-offerings;
32 and he writeth there on the stones the copy of the law of Moses, which he hath written in the presence of the sons of Israel.
33 And all Israel, and its elders, and authorities, and its judges, are standing on this side and on that of the ark, over-against the priests, the Levites, bearing the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, as well the sojourner as the native, half of them over-against mount Gerizim, and the half of them over-against mount Ebal, as Moses servant of Jehovah commanded to bless the people of Israel at the first.
34 And afterwards he hath proclaimed all the words of the law, the blessing and the reviling, according to all that is written in the book of the law;
35 there hath not been a thing of all that Moses commanded which Joshua hath not proclaimed before all the assembly of Israel, and the women, and the infants, and the sojourner who is going in their midst.
Bible verse by verse
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_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse
Joshua 9:1-25 (What follows is a reason why it is not to dependable to rest purely on one's observation to ascertain fact ------ such can lead to wrong conclusions no matter how "scientific" such may seem.) When the kings of the surrounding area heard what had happened to Jericho, they quickly united to fight for their lives against Joshua and the Israelites. These were the kingdoms west of the Jordan River, by the shores of the Mediterranean as far north as the Lebanon mountains—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites.
But when these people of Gibeon heard what had happened to Jericho and A.I., they resorted to trickery to save themselves. They sent ambassadors to Joshua wearing worn-out clothing, as though from a long journey, with patched shoes, weatherworn saddlebags on their donkeys, old, patched wineskins and dry, moldy bread. When they arrived at the camp of Israel at Gilgal, they told Joshua and the men of Israel, “We have come from a distant land to ask for a peace treaty with you.”
The Israelites replied to these Hivites, “How do we know you don’t live nearby? For if you do, we cannot make a treaty with you.” They replied, “We will be your slaves.” “But who are you?” Joshua demanded. “Where do you come from?” And they told him, “We are from a very distant country; we have heard of the might of the Lord your God and of all that he did in Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites—Sihon, king of Heshbon, and Og, king of Bashan. Our elders and people instructed us, ‘Prepare for a long journey; go to the people of Israel and declare our nation to be their servants, and ask for peace.’ This bread was hot from the ovens when we left, but now as you see, it is dry and moldy; these wineskins were new, but now they are old and cracked; our clothing and shoes have become worn out from our long, hard trip.”
Joshua and the other leaders finally believed them. They did not bother to ask the Lord but went ahead and signed a peace treaty. And the leaders of Israel ratified the agreement with a binding oath. Three days later the facts came out—these men were close neighbors. The Israeli army set out at once to investigate and reached their cities (named Gibeon, Chephirah, Beeroth, and Kiriath-jearim) in three days. (The cities were not harmed because of the vow which the leaders of Israel had made before the Lord God. The Israelites were angry with their leaders because of the peace treaty. These leaders replied that they have sworn before God that they will not harm them, and must let them live. If an oath is broken, the wrath of God will come.
Joshua summoned their leaders and demanded, “Why have you lied to us by saying that you lived in a distant land, when you were actually living right here among us? Now a curse shall be upon you! From this moment you must always furnish us with servants to chop wood and carry water for the service of our God.” They replied, “We did it because we were told that Jehovah instructed his disciple Moses to conquer this entire land and destroy all the people living in it. So we feared for our lives because of you; that is why we have done it. But now we are in your hands; you may do with us as you wish.” Joshua would not allow the people of Israel to kill them.
(SO, what is it the Israelites did wrong? They rested on their OWN observations and excluded GOD from their determinations. READ THE VERSES BELOW. Joshua and the Israelites never once ask GOD for any input. This is exactly what evolutionists and uniformitarian researchers do. They exclude God and rest entirely on their own education that they themselves have developed. This brings about distortion and promotes the human effort at the exclusion of divine guidance.....................)
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And it cometh to pass, when all the kings who [are] beyond the Jordan, in the hill-country, and in the low-country, and in every haven of the great sea, over-against Lebanon, the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite, hear --
2 that they gather themselves together to fight with Joshua, and with Israel -- one mouth.
3 And the inhabitants of Gibeon have heard that which Joshua hath done to Jericho and to A.I.,
4 and they work, even they, with subtilty, and go, and feign to be ambassadors, and take old sacks for their asses, and wine-bottles, old, and rent, and bound up,
5 and sandals, old and patched, on their feet, and old garments upon them, and all the bread of their provision is dry -- it was crumbs.
6 And they go unto Joshua, unto the camp at Gilgal, and say unto him, and unto the men of Israel, `From a land far off we have come, and now, make with us a covenant;'
7 and the men of Israel say unto the Hivite, `It may be in our midst ye are dwelling, and how do we make with thee a covenant?'
8 and they say unto Joshua, `Thy servants we [are].' And Joshua saith unto them, `Who [are] ye? and whence come ye?'
9 And they say unto him, `From a land very far off have thy servants come, for the name of Jehovah thy God, for we have heard His fame, and all that He hath done in Egypt,
10 and all that He hath done to the two kings of the Amorite who [are] beyond the Jordan, to Sihon king of Heshbon, and to Og king of Bashan, who [is] in Ashtaroth.
11 `And our elders, and all the inhabitants of our land speak unto us, saying, Take in your hand provision for the way, and go to meet them, and ye have said unto them, Your servants we [are], and now, make with us a covenant;
12 this our bread -- hot we provided ourselves with it out of our houses, on the day of our coming out to go unto you, and now, lo, it is dry, and hath been crumbs;
13 and these [are] the wine-bottles which we filled, new, and lo, they have rent; and these, our garments and our sandals, have become old, from the exceeding greatness of the way.'
14 And the men take of their provision, and the mouth of Jehovah have not asked;
15 and Joshua maketh with them peace, and maketh with them a covenant, to keep them alive; and swear to them do the princes of the company.
16 And it cometh to pass, at the end of three days after that they have made with them a covenant, that they hear that they [are] their neighbours -- that in their midst they are dwelling.
17 And the sons of Israel journey and come in unto their cities on the third day -- and their cities [are] Gibeon, and Chephirah, and Beeroth, and Kirjath-Jearim --
18 and the sons of Israel have not smitten them, for sworn to them have the princes of the company by Jehovah God of Israel, and all the company murmur against the princes.
19 And all the princes say unto all the company, `We -- we have sworn to them by Jehovah, God of Israel; and now, we are not able to come against them;
20 this we do to them, and have kept them alive, and wrath is not upon us, because of the oath which we have sworn to them.'
21 And the princes say unto them, `They live, and are hewers of wood and drawers of water for all the company, as the princes spake to them.'
22 And Joshua calleth for them, and speaketh unto them, saying, `Why have ye deceived us, saying, We are very far from you, and ye in our midst dwelling?
23 and now, cursed are ye, and none of you is cut off [from being] a servant, even hewers of wood and drawers of water, for the house of my God.'
24 And they answer Joshua and say, `Because it was certainly declared to thy servants, that Jehovah thy God commanded Moses His servant to give to you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you; and we fear greatly for ourselves because of you, and we do this thing;
25 and now, lo, we [are] in thy hand, as [it is] good, and as [it is] right in thine eyes to do to us -- do.'
26 And he doth to them so, and delivereth them from the hand of the sons of Israel, and they have not slain them;
27 and Joshua maketh them on that day hewers of wood and drawers of water for the company, and for the altar of Jehovah, unto this day, at the place which He doth choose.
But when these people of Gibeon heard what had happened to Jericho and A.I., they resorted to trickery to save themselves. They sent ambassadors to Joshua wearing worn-out clothing, as though from a long journey, with patched shoes, weatherworn saddlebags on their donkeys, old, patched wineskins and dry, moldy bread. When they arrived at the camp of Israel at Gilgal, they told Joshua and the men of Israel, “We have come from a distant land to ask for a peace treaty with you.”
The Israelites replied to these Hivites, “How do we know you don’t live nearby? For if you do, we cannot make a treaty with you.” They replied, “We will be your slaves.” “But who are you?” Joshua demanded. “Where do you come from?” And they told him, “We are from a very distant country; we have heard of the might of the Lord your God and of all that he did in Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites—Sihon, king of Heshbon, and Og, king of Bashan. Our elders and people instructed us, ‘Prepare for a long journey; go to the people of Israel and declare our nation to be their servants, and ask for peace.’ This bread was hot from the ovens when we left, but now as you see, it is dry and moldy; these wineskins were new, but now they are old and cracked; our clothing and shoes have become worn out from our long, hard trip.”
Joshua and the other leaders finally believed them. They did not bother to ask the Lord but went ahead and signed a peace treaty. And the leaders of Israel ratified the agreement with a binding oath. Three days later the facts came out—these men were close neighbors. The Israeli army set out at once to investigate and reached their cities (named Gibeon, Chephirah, Beeroth, and Kiriath-jearim) in three days. (The cities were not harmed because of the vow which the leaders of Israel had made before the Lord God. The Israelites were angry with their leaders because of the peace treaty. These leaders replied that they have sworn before God that they will not harm them, and must let them live. If an oath is broken, the wrath of God will come.
Joshua summoned their leaders and demanded, “Why have you lied to us by saying that you lived in a distant land, when you were actually living right here among us? Now a curse shall be upon you! From this moment you must always furnish us with servants to chop wood and carry water for the service of our God.” They replied, “We did it because we were told that Jehovah instructed his disciple Moses to conquer this entire land and destroy all the people living in it. So we feared for our lives because of you; that is why we have done it. But now we are in your hands; you may do with us as you wish.” Joshua would not allow the people of Israel to kill them.
(SO, what is it the Israelites did wrong? They rested on their OWN observations and excluded GOD from their determinations. READ THE VERSES BELOW. Joshua and the Israelites never once ask GOD for any input. This is exactly what evolutionists and uniformitarian researchers do. They exclude God and rest entirely on their own education that they themselves have developed. This brings about distortion and promotes the human effort at the exclusion of divine guidance.....................)
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And it cometh to pass, when all the kings who [are] beyond the Jordan, in the hill-country, and in the low-country, and in every haven of the great sea, over-against Lebanon, the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite, hear --
2 that they gather themselves together to fight with Joshua, and with Israel -- one mouth.
3 And the inhabitants of Gibeon have heard that which Joshua hath done to Jericho and to A.I.,
4 and they work, even they, with subtilty, and go, and feign to be ambassadors, and take old sacks for their asses, and wine-bottles, old, and rent, and bound up,
5 and sandals, old and patched, on their feet, and old garments upon them, and all the bread of their provision is dry -- it was crumbs.
6 And they go unto Joshua, unto the camp at Gilgal, and say unto him, and unto the men of Israel, `From a land far off we have come, and now, make with us a covenant;'
7 and the men of Israel say unto the Hivite, `It may be in our midst ye are dwelling, and how do we make with thee a covenant?'
8 and they say unto Joshua, `Thy servants we [are].' And Joshua saith unto them, `Who [are] ye? and whence come ye?'
9 And they say unto him, `From a land very far off have thy servants come, for the name of Jehovah thy God, for we have heard His fame, and all that He hath done in Egypt,
10 and all that He hath done to the two kings of the Amorite who [are] beyond the Jordan, to Sihon king of Heshbon, and to Og king of Bashan, who [is] in Ashtaroth.
11 `And our elders, and all the inhabitants of our land speak unto us, saying, Take in your hand provision for the way, and go to meet them, and ye have said unto them, Your servants we [are], and now, make with us a covenant;
12 this our bread -- hot we provided ourselves with it out of our houses, on the day of our coming out to go unto you, and now, lo, it is dry, and hath been crumbs;
13 and these [are] the wine-bottles which we filled, new, and lo, they have rent; and these, our garments and our sandals, have become old, from the exceeding greatness of the way.'
14 And the men take of their provision, and the mouth of Jehovah have not asked;
15 and Joshua maketh with them peace, and maketh with them a covenant, to keep them alive; and swear to them do the princes of the company.
16 And it cometh to pass, at the end of three days after that they have made with them a covenant, that they hear that they [are] their neighbours -- that in their midst they are dwelling.
17 And the sons of Israel journey and come in unto their cities on the third day -- and their cities [are] Gibeon, and Chephirah, and Beeroth, and Kirjath-Jearim --
18 and the sons of Israel have not smitten them, for sworn to them have the princes of the company by Jehovah God of Israel, and all the company murmur against the princes.
19 And all the princes say unto all the company, `We -- we have sworn to them by Jehovah, God of Israel; and now, we are not able to come against them;
20 this we do to them, and have kept them alive, and wrath is not upon us, because of the oath which we have sworn to them.'
21 And the princes say unto them, `They live, and are hewers of wood and drawers of water for all the company, as the princes spake to them.'
22 And Joshua calleth for them, and speaketh unto them, saying, `Why have ye deceived us, saying, We are very far from you, and ye in our midst dwelling?
23 and now, cursed are ye, and none of you is cut off [from being] a servant, even hewers of wood and drawers of water, for the house of my God.'
24 And they answer Joshua and say, `Because it was certainly declared to thy servants, that Jehovah thy God commanded Moses His servant to give to you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you; and we fear greatly for ourselves because of you, and we do this thing;
25 and now, lo, we [are] in thy hand, as [it is] good, and as [it is] right in thine eyes to do to us -- do.'
26 And he doth to them so, and delivereth them from the hand of the sons of Israel, and they have not slain them;
27 and Joshua maketh them on that day hewers of wood and drawers of water for the company, and for the altar of Jehovah, unto this day, at the place which He doth choose.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse
For a biblical example of the frailty of human research without divine guidance please see the previous posting.
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_huckelberry
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Re: Bible verse by verse
LittleNipper wrote:(SO, what is it the Israelites did wrong? They rested on their OWN observations and excluded GOD from their determinations. READ THE VERSES BELOW. Joshua and the Israelites never once ask GOD for any input. This is exactly what evolutionists and uniformitarian researchers do. They exclude God and rest entirely on their own education that they themselves have developed.
No.
All of the natural universe is created by God, direct from his hand and heart. Everything science discovers is a message direct from God.
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_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse
huckelberry wrote:LittleNipper wrote:(SO, what is it the Israelites did wrong? They rested on their OWN observations and excluded GOD from their determinations. READ THE VERSES BELOW. Joshua and the Israelites never once ask GOD for any input. This is exactly what evolutionists and uniformitarian researchers do. They exclude God and rest entirely on their own education that they themselves have developed.
No.
All of the natural universe is created by God, direct from his hand and heart. Everything science discovers is a message direct from God.
If a scientist ignores God, then the interpretations of God's messages will be flawed and of his own design and not that of God. It is the very same with the reading of the Bible. One person reads it and see inerrancy. Another reads it and finds fault with everything the Bible has to say. Clearly one is correct and one isn't. I firmly believe that naturalists are seeking to explain "creation" as a "natural " process. They do not explore the likelihood that with God the SUPERNATURAL is the only logical explanation ---- all others explanations are flawed.
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_huckelberry
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Re: Bible verse by verse
LittleNipper wrote:If a scientist ignores God, then the interpretations of God's messages will be flawed and of his own design and not that of God. It is the very same with the reading of the Bible. One person reads it and see inerrancy. Another reads it and finds fault with everything the Bible has to say. Clearly one is correct and one isn't. I firmly believe that naturalists are seeking to explain "creation" as a "natural " process. They do not explore the likelihood that with God the SUPERNATURAL is the only logical explanation ---- all others explanations are flawed.
Little Nipper,
People can see chemists of all sorts of religion or lack of religion agree on chemical processes and how they work. Of course that does not mean because all of their Chemistry is correct that all of their religious beliefs are equally correct, A lack of willingness to consider the supernatural may limit the understanding of God , spirit and religion for some people.
From a religious point of view, wood will burn because God designed the atoms in the universe the way he did. Because God planned the universe from the foundation up it can be understood that it all works because God designed it that way. That does not conflict with the observation that carbon combines with oxygen and releases heat and the structure of the atoms determine that process. The chemistry is not understood by the doctrine of creation it is understood by studying the universe God created. People of all sorts of faith and lack of faith share in that exploration together.
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_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse
huckelberry wrote:LittleNipper wrote:If a scientist ignores God, then the interpretations of God's messages will be flawed and of his own design and not that of God. It is the very same with the reading of the Bible. One person reads it and see inerrancy. Another reads it and finds fault with everything the Bible has to say. Clearly one is correct and one isn't. I firmly believe that naturalists are seeking to explain "creation" as a "natural " process. They do not explore the likelihood that with God the SUPERNATURAL is the only logical explanation ---- all others explanations are flawed.
Little Nipper,
People can see chemists of all sorts of religion or lack of religion agree on chemical processes and how they work. Of course that does not mean because all of their Chemistry is correct that all of their religious beliefs are equally correct, A lack of willingness to consider the supernatural may limit the understanding of God , spirit and religion for some people.
From a religious point of view, wood will burn because God designed the atoms in the universe the way he did. Because God planned the universe from the foundation up it can be understood that it all works because God designed it that way. That does not conflict with the observation that carbon combines with oxygen and releases heat and the structure of the atoms determine that process. The chemistry is not understood by the doctrine of creation it is understood by studying the universe God created. People of all sorts of faith and lack of faith share in that exploration together.
The lack of willingness to consider the supernatural WILL limit one's ability to understand God and fully understand that creation is not founded by natural process but by design. And I have no problem with research. What is a problem is when theory outsteps what can be proven and duplicated as an absolute.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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_huckelberry
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Re: Bible verse by verse
LittleNipper wrote:The lack of willingness to consider the supernatural WILL limit one's ability to understand God and fully understand that creation is not founded in a natural process but by design. And I have no problem with research.What is a problem is when theory outsteps what can be proven and duplicated without doubt.
It is clear that we both agree that natural process is a result of creation not the other way around.
I think it is also clear that experiments which do not reproduce results are universally held to be in doubt,likely in error. Scientists of all sorts of religious faith or lack of faith are responsible to that principal.
A scientist must respect the honesty of his investigation. It is a form of respect toward God. In the same way people of faith should respect science out of respect for God.
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_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse
Joshua 10:1-43 When Adoni-zedek, the king of Jerusalem, heard how Joshua had captured and destroyed A.I. and killed its ruler, the same as he had done at Jericho, and how the people of Gibeon had made peace with Israel and were now their allies, he was very frightened. Gibeon was a great city—as great as the royal cities and much larger than A.I.—and its men were known as fighters. So King Adoni-zedek of Jerusalem sent messengers to several other kings: King Hoham of Hebron, King Piram of Jarmuth, King Japhia of Lachish, King Debir of Eglon to help destroy Gibeon because made peace with Joshua and the people of Israel.
So these five Amorite kings combined their armies for a united attack on Gibeon. Gibeon hurriedly sent messengers to Joshua at Gilgal. The city of Gibeon sent to Joshua for help. For all the kings of the Amorites who live in the hills were there with their armies. Joshua and the Israeli army left Gilgal and went to rescue Gibeon. The Lord told Joshua not to fear for they are already defeated and will be destroyed. Joshua traveled all night from Gilgal and took the enemy armies by surprise. The Lord threw them into a panic so that the army of Israel slaughtered great numbers of them at Gibeon and chased the others all the way to Beth-horon and Azekah and Makkedah, killing them along the way. And as the enemy was racing down the hill to Beth-horon, the Lord destroyed them with a great hailstorm that continued all the way to Azekah. More men died from the hail than by the swords of the Israelis.
As the men of Israel were pursuing and harassing the foe, Joshua prayed aloud, “Let the sun stand still over Gibeon, and let the moon stand in its place over the valley of Aijalon!” The sun and the moon didn’t move until the Israeli army had finished the destruction of its enemies! This is described in greater detail in The Book of Jashar. So the sun stopped in the heavens and stayed there for almost twenty-four hours! There had never been such a day before, and there has never been another since, when the Lord stopped the sun and moon—all because of the prayer of one man. The Lord was fighting for Israel.
During the battle the five kings escaped and hid in a cave at Makkedah. When the news was brought to Joshua that they had been found, he issued a command that a great stone be rolled against the mouth of the cave and that guards be placed there to keep the kings inside. Then Joshua commanded the rest of the army, “Go on chasing the enemy and cut them down from the rear. Don’t let them get back to their cities, for the Lord will help you to completely destroy them.” Joshua and the Israeli army wiped out the five armies except for a tiny remnant that managed to reach their fortified cities. The Israelis returned to their camp at Makkedah without having lost a single man! And after that no one dared to attack Israel.
Joshua's men then remove the stone from the mouth of the cave and brought out the five kings—of Jerusalem, Hebron, Jarmuth, Lachish, and Eglon. Joshua told the captains of his army to put their feet on the kings’ necks and telling his men not to be afraid or discouraged --- but strong and courageous. For this is what the Lord is going to do this to all Israel's enemies. Joshua plunged his sword into each of the five kings, killing them, and had them hanged on five trees until evening.
As the sun was going down, Joshua instructed that their bodies be taken down and thrown into the cave where they had been hiding; and a great pile of stones was placed at the mouth of the cave. On that same day Joshua destroyed the city of Makkedah and killed its king and everyone in it. Not one person in the entire city was left alive. Then the Israelis went to Libnah. There, too, the Lord gave them the city and its king. Every last person was slaughtered, just as at Jericho. From Libnah they went to Lachish and attacked it. And the Lord gave it to them on the second day. there also the entire population was killed, just as at Libnah. During the attack on Lachish, King Horam of Gezer arrived with his army to try to help defend the city, but Joshua’s men killed him and destroyed his entire army. The Israeli army then captured Eglon on the first day and, as at Lachish, they killed everyone in the city. After leaving Eglon they went to Hebron and captured it and all of its surrounding villages, slaughtering the entire population. Not one person was left alive. They turned back to Debir, which they quickly captured with all of its outlying villages. And killed everyone just as they had at Libnah.
Joshua and his army conquered the whole country—the nations and kings of the hill country, the Negeb, the lowlands, and the mountain slopes. They destroyed everyone in the land, just as the Lord God of Israel had commanded, slaughtering them from Kadesh-barnea to Gaza, and from Goshen to Gibeon. This was all accomplished in one campaign, for the Lord was fighting for his people. Then Joshua and his army returned to their camp at Gilgal.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And it cometh to pass, when Adoni-Zedek king of Jerusalem heareth that Joshua hath captured A.I., and doth devote it (as he had done to Jericho and to her king so he hath done to A.I. and to her king), and that the inhabitants of Gibeon have made peace with Israel, and are in their midst, --
2 that they are greatly afraid, because Gibeon [is] a great city, as one of the royal cities, and because it [is] greater than A.I., and all its men -- heroes.
3 And Adoni-Zedek king of Jerusalem sendeth unto Hoham king of Hebron, and unto Piram king of Jarmuth, and unto Japhia king of Lachish, and unto Debir king of Eglon, saying,
4 `Come up unto me, and help me, and we smite Gibeon, for it hath made peace with Joshua, and with the sons of Israel.'
5 And five kings of the Amorite (the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, the king of Eglon) are gathered together, and go up, they and all their camps, and encamp against Gibeon, and fight against it.
6 And the men of Gibeon send unto Joshua, unto the camp at Gilgal, saying, `Let not thy hand cease from thy servants; come up unto us [with] haste, and give safety to us, and help us; for all the kings of the Amorite, dwelling in the hill-country, have been assembled against us.'
7 And Joshua goeth up from Gilgal, he, and all the people of war with him, even all the mighty men of valour.
8 And Jehovah saith unto Joshua, `Be not afraid of them, for into thy hand I have given them, there doth not stand a man of them in thy presence.'
9 And Joshua cometh in unto them suddenly (all the night he hath gone up from Gilgal),
10 and Jehovah doth crush them before Israel, and it smiteth them -- a great smiting -- at Gibeon, and pursueth them the way of the ascent of Beth-Horon, and smiteth them unto Azekah, and unto Makkedah.
11 And it cometh to pass, in their fleeing from the face of Israel -- they [are] in the descent of Beth-Horon -- and Jehovah hath cast upon them great stones out of the heavens, unto Azekah, and they die; more are they who have died by the hailstones than they whom the sons of Israel have slain by the sword.
12 Then speaketh Joshua to Jehovah in the day of Jehovah's giving up the Amorites before the sons of Israel, and he saith, before the eyes of Israel, `Sun -- in Gibeon stand still; and moon -- in the valley of Ajalon;'
13 and the sun standeth still, and the moon hath stood -- till the nation taketh vengeance [on] its enemies; is it not written on the Book of the Upright, `and the sun standeth in the midst of the heavens, and hath not hasted to go in -- as a perfect day?'
14 And there hath not been like that day before it or after it, for Jehovah's hearkening to the voice of a man; for Jehovah is fighting for Israel.
15 And Joshua turneth back, and all Israel with him, unto the camp at Gilgal.
16 And these five kings flee, and are hidden in a cave at Makkedah,
17 and it is declared to Joshua, saying, `The five kings have been found hidden in a cave at Makkedah.'
18 And Joshua saith, `Roll great stones unto the mouth of the cave, and appoint over it men to watch them;
19 and ye, stand not, pursue after your enemies, and ye have smitten the hindmost of them; suffer them not to go in unto their cities, for Jehovah your God hath given them into your hand.'
20 And it cometh to pass, when Joshua and the sons of Israel finish to smite them -- a very great smiting, till they are consumed, and the remnant who have remained of them go in unto the fenced cities,
21 that all the people turn back to the camp, unto Joshua, [at] Makkedah, in peace; none moved sharply his tongue against the sons of Israel.
22 And Joshua saith, `Open ye the mouth of the cave, and bring out unto me these five kings from the cave;'
23 and they do so, and bring out unto him these five kings from the cave: the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, the king of Eglon.
24 And it cometh to pass, when they bring out these kings unto Joshua, that Joshua calleth unto every man of Israel, and saith unto the captains of the men of war, who have gone with him, `Draw near, set your feet on the necks of these kings;' and they draw near, and set their feet on their necks.
25 And Joshua saith unto them, `Fear not, nor be affrighted; be strong and courageous; for thus doth Jehovah do to all your enemies with whom ye are fighting;'
26 and Joshua smiteth them afterwards, and putteth them to death, and hangeth them on five trees; and they are hanging on the trees till the evening.
27 And it cometh to pass, at the time of the going in of the sun, Joshua hath commanded, and they take them down from off the trees, and cast them unto the cave where they had been hid, and put great stones on the mouth of the cave till this very day.
28 And Makkedah hath Joshua captured on that day, and he smiteth it by the mouth of the sword, and its king he hath devoted, them and every person who [is] in it -- he hath not left a remnant; and he doth to the king of Makkedah as he did to the king of Jericho.
29 And Joshua passeth over, and all Israel with him, from Makkedah [to] Libnah, and fighteth with Libnah;
30 and Jehovah giveth also it into the hand of Israel, and its king, and it smiteth it by the mouth of the sword, and every person who [is] in it -- it left not in it a remnant; and it doth to its king as it did to the king of Jericho.
31 And Joshua passeth over, and all Israel with him, from Libnah to Lachish, and encampeth against it, and fighteth against it;
32 And Jehovah giveth Lachish into the hand of Israel, and it captureth it on the second day, and smiteth it by the mouth of the sword, and every person who [is] in it, according to all that it did to Libnah.
33 Than hath Horam king of Gezer come up to help Lachish, and Joshua smiteth him and his people, till he hath not left to him a remnant.
34 And Joshua passeth over, and all Israel with him, from Lachish to Eglon, and they encamp against it, and fight against it,
35 and capture it on that day, and smite it by the mouth of the sword, and every person who [is] in it on that day he hath devoted, according to all that he did to Lachish.
36 And Joshua goeth up, and all Israel with him, from Eglon to Hebron, and they fight against it,
37 and capture it, and smite it by the mouth of the sword, and its king, and all its cities, and every person who [is] in it -- he hath not left a remnant -- according to all that he did to Eglon -- and doth devote it, and every person who [is] in it.
38 And Joshua turneth back, and all Israel with him, to Debir, and fighteth against it,
39 and captureth it, and its king, and all its cities, and they smite them by the mouth of the sword, and devote every person who [is] in it -- he hath not left a remnant; as he did to Hebron so he did to Debir, and to its king, and as he did to Libnah, and to its king.
40 And Joshua smiteth all the land of the hill-country, and of the south, and of the low-country, and of the springs, and all their kings -- he hath not left a remnant, and all that doth breathe he hath devoted, as Jehovah, God of Israel, commanded.
41 And Joshua smiteth them from Kadesh-Barnea, even unto Gaza, and all the land of Goshen, even unto Gibeon;
42 and all these kings and their land hath Joshua captured [at] one time, for Jehovah, God of Israel, is fighting for Israel.
43 and Joshua turneth back, and all Israel with him, unto the camp at Gilgal.
So these five Amorite kings combined their armies for a united attack on Gibeon. Gibeon hurriedly sent messengers to Joshua at Gilgal. The city of Gibeon sent to Joshua for help. For all the kings of the Amorites who live in the hills were there with their armies. Joshua and the Israeli army left Gilgal and went to rescue Gibeon. The Lord told Joshua not to fear for they are already defeated and will be destroyed. Joshua traveled all night from Gilgal and took the enemy armies by surprise. The Lord threw them into a panic so that the army of Israel slaughtered great numbers of them at Gibeon and chased the others all the way to Beth-horon and Azekah and Makkedah, killing them along the way. And as the enemy was racing down the hill to Beth-horon, the Lord destroyed them with a great hailstorm that continued all the way to Azekah. More men died from the hail than by the swords of the Israelis.
As the men of Israel were pursuing and harassing the foe, Joshua prayed aloud, “Let the sun stand still over Gibeon, and let the moon stand in its place over the valley of Aijalon!” The sun and the moon didn’t move until the Israeli army had finished the destruction of its enemies! This is described in greater detail in The Book of Jashar. So the sun stopped in the heavens and stayed there for almost twenty-four hours! There had never been such a day before, and there has never been another since, when the Lord stopped the sun and moon—all because of the prayer of one man. The Lord was fighting for Israel.
During the battle the five kings escaped and hid in a cave at Makkedah. When the news was brought to Joshua that they had been found, he issued a command that a great stone be rolled against the mouth of the cave and that guards be placed there to keep the kings inside. Then Joshua commanded the rest of the army, “Go on chasing the enemy and cut them down from the rear. Don’t let them get back to their cities, for the Lord will help you to completely destroy them.” Joshua and the Israeli army wiped out the five armies except for a tiny remnant that managed to reach their fortified cities. The Israelis returned to their camp at Makkedah without having lost a single man! And after that no one dared to attack Israel.
Joshua's men then remove the stone from the mouth of the cave and brought out the five kings—of Jerusalem, Hebron, Jarmuth, Lachish, and Eglon. Joshua told the captains of his army to put their feet on the kings’ necks and telling his men not to be afraid or discouraged --- but strong and courageous. For this is what the Lord is going to do this to all Israel's enemies. Joshua plunged his sword into each of the five kings, killing them, and had them hanged on five trees until evening.
As the sun was going down, Joshua instructed that their bodies be taken down and thrown into the cave where they had been hiding; and a great pile of stones was placed at the mouth of the cave. On that same day Joshua destroyed the city of Makkedah and killed its king and everyone in it. Not one person in the entire city was left alive. Then the Israelis went to Libnah. There, too, the Lord gave them the city and its king. Every last person was slaughtered, just as at Jericho. From Libnah they went to Lachish and attacked it. And the Lord gave it to them on the second day. there also the entire population was killed, just as at Libnah. During the attack on Lachish, King Horam of Gezer arrived with his army to try to help defend the city, but Joshua’s men killed him and destroyed his entire army. The Israeli army then captured Eglon on the first day and, as at Lachish, they killed everyone in the city. After leaving Eglon they went to Hebron and captured it and all of its surrounding villages, slaughtering the entire population. Not one person was left alive. They turned back to Debir, which they quickly captured with all of its outlying villages. And killed everyone just as they had at Libnah.
Joshua and his army conquered the whole country—the nations and kings of the hill country, the Negeb, the lowlands, and the mountain slopes. They destroyed everyone in the land, just as the Lord God of Israel had commanded, slaughtering them from Kadesh-barnea to Gaza, and from Goshen to Gibeon. This was all accomplished in one campaign, for the Lord was fighting for his people. Then Joshua and his army returned to their camp at Gilgal.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And it cometh to pass, when Adoni-Zedek king of Jerusalem heareth that Joshua hath captured A.I., and doth devote it (as he had done to Jericho and to her king so he hath done to A.I. and to her king), and that the inhabitants of Gibeon have made peace with Israel, and are in their midst, --
2 that they are greatly afraid, because Gibeon [is] a great city, as one of the royal cities, and because it [is] greater than A.I., and all its men -- heroes.
3 And Adoni-Zedek king of Jerusalem sendeth unto Hoham king of Hebron, and unto Piram king of Jarmuth, and unto Japhia king of Lachish, and unto Debir king of Eglon, saying,
4 `Come up unto me, and help me, and we smite Gibeon, for it hath made peace with Joshua, and with the sons of Israel.'
5 And five kings of the Amorite (the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, the king of Eglon) are gathered together, and go up, they and all their camps, and encamp against Gibeon, and fight against it.
6 And the men of Gibeon send unto Joshua, unto the camp at Gilgal, saying, `Let not thy hand cease from thy servants; come up unto us [with] haste, and give safety to us, and help us; for all the kings of the Amorite, dwelling in the hill-country, have been assembled against us.'
7 And Joshua goeth up from Gilgal, he, and all the people of war with him, even all the mighty men of valour.
8 And Jehovah saith unto Joshua, `Be not afraid of them, for into thy hand I have given them, there doth not stand a man of them in thy presence.'
9 And Joshua cometh in unto them suddenly (all the night he hath gone up from Gilgal),
10 and Jehovah doth crush them before Israel, and it smiteth them -- a great smiting -- at Gibeon, and pursueth them the way of the ascent of Beth-Horon, and smiteth them unto Azekah, and unto Makkedah.
11 And it cometh to pass, in their fleeing from the face of Israel -- they [are] in the descent of Beth-Horon -- and Jehovah hath cast upon them great stones out of the heavens, unto Azekah, and they die; more are they who have died by the hailstones than they whom the sons of Israel have slain by the sword.
12 Then speaketh Joshua to Jehovah in the day of Jehovah's giving up the Amorites before the sons of Israel, and he saith, before the eyes of Israel, `Sun -- in Gibeon stand still; and moon -- in the valley of Ajalon;'
13 and the sun standeth still, and the moon hath stood -- till the nation taketh vengeance [on] its enemies; is it not written on the Book of the Upright, `and the sun standeth in the midst of the heavens, and hath not hasted to go in -- as a perfect day?'
14 And there hath not been like that day before it or after it, for Jehovah's hearkening to the voice of a man; for Jehovah is fighting for Israel.
15 And Joshua turneth back, and all Israel with him, unto the camp at Gilgal.
16 And these five kings flee, and are hidden in a cave at Makkedah,
17 and it is declared to Joshua, saying, `The five kings have been found hidden in a cave at Makkedah.'
18 And Joshua saith, `Roll great stones unto the mouth of the cave, and appoint over it men to watch them;
19 and ye, stand not, pursue after your enemies, and ye have smitten the hindmost of them; suffer them not to go in unto their cities, for Jehovah your God hath given them into your hand.'
20 And it cometh to pass, when Joshua and the sons of Israel finish to smite them -- a very great smiting, till they are consumed, and the remnant who have remained of them go in unto the fenced cities,
21 that all the people turn back to the camp, unto Joshua, [at] Makkedah, in peace; none moved sharply his tongue against the sons of Israel.
22 And Joshua saith, `Open ye the mouth of the cave, and bring out unto me these five kings from the cave;'
23 and they do so, and bring out unto him these five kings from the cave: the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, the king of Eglon.
24 And it cometh to pass, when they bring out these kings unto Joshua, that Joshua calleth unto every man of Israel, and saith unto the captains of the men of war, who have gone with him, `Draw near, set your feet on the necks of these kings;' and they draw near, and set their feet on their necks.
25 And Joshua saith unto them, `Fear not, nor be affrighted; be strong and courageous; for thus doth Jehovah do to all your enemies with whom ye are fighting;'
26 and Joshua smiteth them afterwards, and putteth them to death, and hangeth them on five trees; and they are hanging on the trees till the evening.
27 And it cometh to pass, at the time of the going in of the sun, Joshua hath commanded, and they take them down from off the trees, and cast them unto the cave where they had been hid, and put great stones on the mouth of the cave till this very day.
28 And Makkedah hath Joshua captured on that day, and he smiteth it by the mouth of the sword, and its king he hath devoted, them and every person who [is] in it -- he hath not left a remnant; and he doth to the king of Makkedah as he did to the king of Jericho.
29 And Joshua passeth over, and all Israel with him, from Makkedah [to] Libnah, and fighteth with Libnah;
30 and Jehovah giveth also it into the hand of Israel, and its king, and it smiteth it by the mouth of the sword, and every person who [is] in it -- it left not in it a remnant; and it doth to its king as it did to the king of Jericho.
31 And Joshua passeth over, and all Israel with him, from Libnah to Lachish, and encampeth against it, and fighteth against it;
32 And Jehovah giveth Lachish into the hand of Israel, and it captureth it on the second day, and smiteth it by the mouth of the sword, and every person who [is] in it, according to all that it did to Libnah.
33 Than hath Horam king of Gezer come up to help Lachish, and Joshua smiteth him and his people, till he hath not left to him a remnant.
34 And Joshua passeth over, and all Israel with him, from Lachish to Eglon, and they encamp against it, and fight against it,
35 and capture it on that day, and smite it by the mouth of the sword, and every person who [is] in it on that day he hath devoted, according to all that he did to Lachish.
36 And Joshua goeth up, and all Israel with him, from Eglon to Hebron, and they fight against it,
37 and capture it, and smite it by the mouth of the sword, and its king, and all its cities, and every person who [is] in it -- he hath not left a remnant -- according to all that he did to Eglon -- and doth devote it, and every person who [is] in it.
38 And Joshua turneth back, and all Israel with him, to Debir, and fighteth against it,
39 and captureth it, and its king, and all its cities, and they smite them by the mouth of the sword, and devote every person who [is] in it -- he hath not left a remnant; as he did to Hebron so he did to Debir, and to its king, and as he did to Libnah, and to its king.
40 And Joshua smiteth all the land of the hill-country, and of the south, and of the low-country, and of the springs, and all their kings -- he hath not left a remnant, and all that doth breathe he hath devoted, as Jehovah, God of Israel, commanded.
41 And Joshua smiteth them from Kadesh-Barnea, even unto Gaza, and all the land of Goshen, even unto Gibeon;
42 and all these kings and their land hath Joshua captured [at] one time, for Jehovah, God of Israel, is fighting for Israel.
43 and Joshua turneth back, and all Israel with him, unto the camp at Gilgal.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
_LittleNipper
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 4518
- Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:49 pm
Re: Bible verse by verse
I do not need proof; however, there does exist some interesting considerations to ponder.
Please consider: http://www.geocentricity.com/astronomy_ ... index.html
Please consider: http://www.geocentricity.com/astronomy_ ... index.html