Buffalo wrote:That's LDS doctrine. The question is, do YOU believe it?
Simon says he believes LDS doctrine, but that is not doctrine.
Rather than badgering Simon, maybe we could ask Simon to explain what the Alma passage and the quotes from General Authorities actually mean. Just a thought.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Do you, Darth J. believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that Jesus felt the physical and mental pains and sensations of a male raping a female, and of a female raping a male, of all people from the beginning of time until the end of time?
Yes or no will suffice.
Yes.
Again, you're demonstrated that you consistently misrepresent what the church teaches.
asbestosman wrote:I find it odd that God would have to personally experience my pain in order to comfort me. When I was young, I didn't need mom to feel just like me in order to get comfort from her.
That's what I felt too. I'm not sure how Jesus feeling pain brings people comfort. Do they think he knows what I am going through so I can talk about it to him? It's not like you could talk through it with Jesus because he's kind of dead... Anybody here heard from Jesus? Or is it this way... I am suffering this right now but it least I can't complain Jesus had it way worse than me so I should just shutup and take it.
You know what's another thing funny about Jesus is while I was growing up we didn't seem to talk about him all that much or it least I can't remember talking about him much. Most of the things I remember when I was really young is the Book of Mormon stories and the restoration of the gospel. Then when the church really wanted to emphasize the name of the church with Jesus Christ and bring the church more mainstream. That's when we really started to talk more about Jesus. The paintings at the church all started to turn from restored gospel/Book of Mormon paintings to Jesus paintings. For a big chunck of that time I was thinking who is the Jesus guy we are now talking about... Maybe this needs to be another thread topic but anyone else notice this?
Darth J wrote:It's because Jesus is doing more than just sympathizing with you like your mom did. As the Savior, Jesus is healing you and taking away your pain.
Sure, but I don't see why He'd have to experience or at least emotionally feel the same thing in order to take away my pain or heal me.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Darth J wrote:Do you, Darth J. believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that Jesus felt the physical and mental pains and sensations of a male raping a female, and of a female raping a male, of all people from the beginning of time until the end of time?
Yes or no will suffice.
Yes.
Simon Belmont wrote:Again, you're demonstrated that you consistently misrepresent what the church teaches.
just me wrote:This is actually one of the reasons that an all male godhead is damaging to people. Many women need and crave a feminine divine that they can access and lean upon in a way that is just not possible for a man to fill.
I wouldn't object to a feminine divine. In fact, I don't see how an all female godhead would leave me craving anything.
I find it odd that God would have to personally experience my pain in order to comfort me. When I was young, I didn't need mom to feel just like me in order to get comfort from her. No, what's wrong is when someone is just trying to make you shut up about your pain. As a man, I'll accept someone trying to help fix the issue without understanding in any deep way, but women want people to understand it.
I agree that the idea that someone has to suffer exactly what you have in order to comfort you or listen and hear your pain is strange. I don't agree. Although, people certainly have found benefit from talking to others who are in similar situations! Most people really want to be heard and validated. I feel understood by plenty of men who obviously have never been a woman or been through exactly what I have. Really my point was that there are many women out there who crave a goddess to pray to, to talk to, worship and be comforted by. For whatever reason. They are denied that opportunity by the LDS church and much of christianity...from what I understand. At least Catholics have Mary.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Simon, I think Darth J really does mean the Mormon church teaches that Jesus has felt the physical pain of all rapes but how Jesus did that... we don't know. What we do know is that according to LDS teaching Jesus has felt this pain physically and mentally.
You are trying to be to scientific with it. Jesus doesn't need a vagina to feel this pain. Most LDS accept that he did feel the pain though and they accept this attonment. You however do not seem to accept this.
asbestosman wrote:I find it odd that God would have to personally experience my pain in order to comfort me. When I was young, I didn't need mom to feel just like me in order to get comfort from her.
That's what I felt too. I'm not sure how Jesus feeling pain brings people comfort. Do they think he knows what I am going through so I can talk about it to him? It's not like you could talk through it with Jesus because he's kind of dead... Anybody here heard from Jesus? Or is it this way... I am suffering this right now but it least I can't complain Jesus had it way worse than me so I should just shutup and take it.
You know what's another thing funny about Jesus is while I was growing up we didn't seem to talk about him all that much or it least I can't remember talking about him much. Most of the things I remember when I was really young is the Book of Mormon stories and the restoration of the gospel. Then when the church really wanted to emphasize the name of the church with Jesus Christ and bring the church more mainstream. That's when we really started to talk more about Jesus. The paintings at the church all started to turn from restored gospel/Book of Mormon paintings to Jesus paintings. For a big chunck of that time I was thinking who is the Jesus guy we are now talking about... Maybe this needs to be another thread topic but anyone else notice this?
I don't think Jesus takes away pain or suffering at all, from what I can tell. People mourn, people bleed, people hurt and suffer and die. Being Christian doesn't take away this fact.
Then, LDS have the added belief that a lot of people will have to suffer for their own sins and then they will still have to accept the Atonement before they can get into a kingdom of glory. So, human suffer on earth, then suffer in heaven and then accept Jesus' suffering.
All for what? Seems like a terrible, jacked-up Plan to me.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Simon Belmont wrote:Again, you're demonstrated that you consistently misrepresent what the church teaches.
Simon, rather than letting Darth et al goad you further, why don't you explain what the church actually means about Jesus suffering the pains of all so that he can succor us.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Darth J wrote:It's because Jesus is doing more than just sympathizing with you like your mom did. As the Savior, Jesus is healing you and taking away your pain.
Sure, but I don't see why He'd have to experience or at least emotionally feel the same thing in order to take away my pain or heal me.
I don't either. I can only rely on His modern apostles.
Through this suffering, Jesus redeemed the souls of all men, women, and children “that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.” In doing so, Christ “descended below all things”—including every kind of sickness, infirmity, and dark despair experienced by every mortal being—in order that He might “comprehend all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth.”
Hmm. Looks like Elder Holland is flagrantly misrepresenting LDS doctrine again.