Counter-Evidence Regarding Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

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_Morley
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Re: Counter-Evidence Regarding Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

Post by _Morley »

Fence Sitter wrote:
Morley wrote:I think that Emma believed that Joseph saw and talked to God. However, I think it's hard to always maintain that belief, especially when your husband tells you that God wants you to give him an extra piece of cake for supper. And, oh yeah, that God also wants him to eat some cake at other ladies' dinner tables.


Perhaps in the early years she believed this. But as with all marriages and relationships, her relationship to Joseph evolved over time. It is hard to gauge how much she actually believed in him as a treasure hunter turned prophet at that time. Did she really think he could find treasure in the hills around her fathers house? Was she really convinced that there were gold plates under that cloth? Did she really never take a peak to see what was really there? How did she react when she was pushed aside when Cowdery and Rigdon entered the picture? I tend to think she knew what was going on and was willing to accept it for a variety of reasons, though it is clear she was not always happy with it. As Joseph Smith's fame grew so would the attention on her. I think the simplest explanation about her reactions to polygamy is that it was a line she was not willing to cross because of how it would reflect on her. In the end she totally rejected it and even went so far as to create an illusion of non involvement by her husband, blaming it all on Brigham Young and thereby leaving herself as the widow of a 'true' prophet of God. Painting her as a believing faithful wife ignores much of how she acted when it really counted.


I agree, Fence. This is basically what I was trying to say. You managed to put it a bit more elegantly.
_Runtu
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Re: Counter-Evidence Regarding Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

Post by _Runtu »

It's been five days since I asked for "counter-evidence" and proof of Droopy's and bcspace's suggestion that I've been dishonest and disingenuous in my discussion of some problematic issues of plural marriage.

bcspace made one half-hearted attempt to deal with the evidence, but since then seems to have abandoned the thread and chosen not to engage the responses to his post. Droopy has given us nothing.

So, unless something unexpected comes up, I think it's safe to assume that there is no counter-evidence that Joseph Smith did not marry at least two women and consummate the marriages without the knowledge and consent of Emma Smith. I've provided the evidence, and Nevo has provided further evidence. If there's counter-evidence, it's apparently being concealed from us.
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_Runtu
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Re: Counter-Evidence Regarding Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

Post by _Runtu »

A week has gone by, and still no counter-evidence.
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_Jason Bourne
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Re: Counter-Evidence Regarding Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Runtu

Clearly there is none. Droopy can only attack you personally. He has painstakingly avoided this thread. I am sure he has seen it. Easier for him to just increase the fog index of his posts by using about three times more words than necessary and then attack you personally.
_Runtu
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Re: Counter-Evidence Regarding Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

Post by _Runtu »

Jason Bourne wrote:Runtu

Clearly there is none. Droopy can only attack you personally. He has painstakingly avoided this thread. I am sure he has seen it. Easier for him to just increase the fog index of his posts by using about three times more words than necessary and then attack you personally.


What are the odds that the next time this topic comes up, bcspace and Droopy make the same accusations that I'm either making this stuff up or ignoring the counter-evidence?

I'd take that bet.
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_CSA
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Re: Counter-Evidence Regarding Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

Post by _CSA »

truth dancer wrote:So, the God of Joseph Smith was not concerned with all the challenges humans face; all the illnesses, wars, slavery, cruelty, and horror that occurs throughout our world.


Many of the challenges all humans face is also a result of free-agency. What would you have God do?

truth dancer wrote:God wasn't helping the starving and suffering; the hurting people who fill our planet, he was so concerned with making sure Joseph got into bed with a few dozen girls and women that all the rest of what should be Godly concerns just fell by the wayside.


The church today as they have in the past help with those who are starving and suffering in the world. The church is led by God through his Prophets and while his plan may seem difficult to understand, those within the church can see the higher purposes of why God commands these things.

truth dancer wrote:Why is it that all sorts of self-proclaimed prophets think God cares about their sex life and wants them to have sex with all sorts of girls and women? What is it about cult/religious leaders that makes them think their sex life is important to God?


When has a true Prophet claimed that God cares about his sex life?
_Runtu
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Re: Counter-Evidence Regarding Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

Post by _Runtu »

CSA wrote:When has a true Prophet claimed that God cares about his sex life?


When he said an angel with a drawn sword threatened him with death if he didn't take secret plural wives.
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_CSA
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Re: Counter-Evidence Regarding Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

Post by _CSA »

Runtu wrote:
CSA wrote:When has a true Prophet claimed that God cares about his sex life?


When he said an angel with a drawn sword threatened him with death if he didn't take secret plural wives.


An angel of death threatened him to obey the commandments of God.
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Re: Counter-Evidence Regarding Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

Post by _Runtu »

CSA wrote:An angel of death threatened him to obey the commandments of God.


I guess that works if you believe that God commands men to take plural wives without their wives' consent or knowledge and then keep those marriages secret.
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_CSA
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Re: Counter-Evidence Regarding Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

Post by _CSA »

Runtu wrote:
CSA wrote:An angel of death threatened him to obey the commandments of God.


I guess that works if you believe that God commands men to take plural wives without their wives' consent or knowledge and then keep those marriages secret.


I do believe that those who are designated to follow God's command, must do so. That these choice individuals may have some of their very free agency taken away from them to fulfill a greater purpose. To not do as God commands is a greater sin.
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