Bible verse by verse

[_Gunnar]

Besides that, why would any of the countless billions of sun-like stars in the observable universe be any less likely to have planets that harbor life than our own sun? And why would the inhabitants of these countless other suns be any less precious to God than we are?

[Guest]

If it could be shown that our planet really were the only abode of life in the entire universe, that would prove absolutely nothing about the existence or non-existence of God. The most it would prove is that the origin of life is much more improbable than any biologists now believe.

by the way, improbable does not mean impossible. Everything that ever happens comes at the end of an extremely long and improbable sequence of events dating back to the very beginning of time that would almost certainly never occur again even if it were possible to go back and recreate the exact same starting conditions that existed before time began to unfold, and start over again. Given unlimited time or space or both, anything that is merely improbable, no matter how improbable, must eventually occur somewhere, sometime.

[_Gunnar]

Actually, I believe you are VERY WRONG!" If there is only life on this one planet in the entire Universe, then the staunchest atheist would be hard pressed to not believe GOD created life, and by design placed it here to suit Himself. If life evolved itself, then it should evolve itself anywhere and at anytime. But if life exists nowhere but here ----- well, then the only possibility is GOD!

Not surprising--you have already established that you believe a lot of foolish things! Are you implying here that if we eventually find incontrovertible evidence of life on some other planet or in some other solar system that this would somehow weaken or even disprove the case for the existence of God? Or would you simply dismiss such evidence out of hand as a lie (as you invariably do when the evidence conflicts with what you already believe)?

Let us further examine the implications of what you just stated. What I infer from that is that you believe in a narcissistic God who is so pathetically insecure and craving of adoration and validation that he dare not create intelligent life more than once or in more than one of the countless worlds he has created for fear that if he did so, it might somehow weaken our faith in his existence or lessen the adoration he so abjectly craves from his creations. Is that right?

If God is really that desperate for worship and adoration, why would he not create as many worshipers as he could in as many places as possible?

Yet another disturbing admission in your statement above is that you believe in a thoroughly selfish God who created life purely to "suit himself." In other words, God created us for his own benefit (or amusement)--not for ours. I guess that explains very well why God has been so seemingly indifferent to human suffering all through the ages, doesn't it? No wonder the Old Testament portrays him as such a cruel and sadistic monster!

[_LittleNipper]

If it could be shown that our planet really were the only abode of life in the entire universe, that would prove absolutely nothing about the existence or non-existence of God. The most it would prove is that the origin of life is much more improbable than any biologists now believe.

by the way, improbable does not mean impossible. Everything that ever happens comes at the end of an extremely long and improbable sequence of events dating back to the very beginning of time that would almost certainly never occur again even if it were possible to go back and recreate the exact same starting conditions that existed before time began to unfold, and start over again. Given unlimited time or space or both, anything that is merely improbable, no matter how improbable, must eventually occur somewhere, sometime.

Nothing is impossible with God. So you believe that given enough time, a Twister could eventually assemble a pocket watch as it passed through a junk yard...................... Wait a minute, did you say that you do or do not believe that the Deluge was an actual event?

[_LittleNipper]

Actually, I believe you are VERY WRONG!" If there is only life on this one planet in the entire Universe, then the staunchest atheist would be hard pressed to not believe GOD created life, and by design placed it here to suit Himself. If life evolved itself, then it should evolve itself anywhere and at anytime. But if life exists nowhere but here ----- well, then the only possibility is GOD!

Not surprising--you have already established that you believe a lot of foolish things! Are you implying here that if we eventually find incontrovertible evidence of life on some other planet or in some other solar system that this would somehow weaken or even disprove the case for the existence of God? Or would you simply dismiss such evidence out of hand as a lie (as you invariably do when the evidence conflicts with what you already believe)?

Let us further examine the implications of what you just stated. What I infer from that is that you believe in a narcissistic God who is so pathetically insecure and craving of adoration and validation that he dare not create intelligent life more than once or in more than one of the countless worlds he has created for fear that if he did so, it might somehow weaken our faith in his existence or lessen the adoration he so abjectly craves from his creations. Is that right?

If God is really that desperate for worship and adoration, why would he not create as many worshipers as he could in as many places as possible?

Yet another disturbing admission in your statement above is that you believe in a thoroughly selfish God who created life purely to "suit himself." In other words, God created us for his own benefit (or amusement)--not for ours. I guess that explains very well why God has been so seemingly indifferent to human suffering all through the ages, doesn't it? No wonder the Old Testament portrays him as such a cruel and sadistic monster!

God is concerned for where you will spend your eternity. God suffered through the cross and by shunning Christ while on the cross. God suffers when people make wrong choices--- selecting to believe in things that exclude the Creator, and in events that never happed. Just like when Adam & Eve believed the Serpent instead of listening to God's warning. The simple fact is that sin corrupted the entire universe. It would seem rather unfair that some "man" living around Andromeda would have to suffer for the sin of Adam's race... And the proof of this fact is that seemingly black holes are swallowing entire solar systems and asteroids are striking planets everywhere, and yet here we are....
What is man that thou art mindful of him (since he is just a tiny speck).

[_Bazooka]

If it could be shown that our planet really were the only abode of life in the entire universe, that would prove absolutely nothing about the existence or non-existence of God. The most it would prove is that the origin of life is much more improbable than any biologists now believe.

by the way, improbable does not mean impossible. Everything that ever happens comes at the end of an extremely long and improbable sequence of events dating back to the very beginning of time that would almost certainly never occur again even if it were possible to go back and recreate the exact same starting conditions that existed before time began to unfold, and start over again. Given unlimited time or space or both, anything that is merely improbable, no matter how improbable, must eventually occur somewhere, sometime.

Nothing is impossible with God. So you believe that given enough time, a Twister could eventually assemble a pocket watch as it passed through a junk yard...................... Wait a minute, did you say that you do or do not believe that the Deluge was an actual event?

Nipper, if you saw a child being sexually abused and you knew you had the ability to stop it, can you think of a good reason not to?

[_Gunnar]

If it could be shown that our planet really were the only abode of life in the entire universe, that would prove absolutely nothing about the existence or non-existence of God. The most it would prove is that the origin of life is much more improbable than any biologists now believe.

by the way, improbable does not mean impossible. Everything that ever happens comes at the end of an extremely long and improbable sequence of events dating back to the very beginning of time that would almost certainly never occur again even if it were possible to go back and recreate the exact same starting conditions that existed before time began to unfold, and start over again. Given unlimited time or space or both, anything that is merely improbable, no matter how improbable, must eventually occur somewhere, sometime.

Nothing is impossible with God. So you believe that given enough time, a Twister could eventually assemble a pocket watch as it passed through a junk yard...................... Wait a minute, did you say that you do or do not believe that the Deluge was an actual event?

Noah's deluge was not merely improbable. Given what we now know about human history, geology, archaeology, physics, paleontology, biology and many other scientific disciplines, it is simply not possible that the story of Noah's deluge could be literally true.

If you think that evolution is in any way analogous to a tornado passing through a junkyard and accidentally assembling a watch, then you don't even begin to understand evolutionary theory.

[_Gunnar]

Actually, I believe you are VERY WRONG!" If there is only life on this one planet in the entire Universe, then the staunchest atheist would be hard pressed to not believe GOD created life, and by design placed it here to suit Himself. If life evolved itself, then it should evolve itself anywhere and at anytime. But if life exists nowhere but here ----- well, then the only possibility is GOD!

Not surprising--you have already established that you believe a lot of foolish things! Are you implying here that if we eventually find incontrovertible evidence of life on some other planet or in some other solar system that this would somehow weaken or even disprove the case for the existence of God? Or would you simply dismiss such evidence out of hand as a lie (as you invariably do when the evidence conflicts with what you already believe)?

Let us further examine the implications of what you just stated. What I infer from that is that you believe in a narcissistic God who is so pathetically insecure and craving of adoration and validation that he dare not create intelligent life more than once or in more than one of the countless worlds he has created for fear that if he did so, it might somehow weaken our faith in his existence or lessen the adoration he so abjectly craves from his creations. Is that right?

If God is really that desperate for worship and adoration, why would he not create as many worshipers as he could in as many places as possible?

Yet another disturbing admission in your statement above is that you believe in a thoroughly selfish God who created life purely to "suit himself." In other words, God created us for his own benefit (or amusement)--not for ours. I guess that explains very well why God has been so seemingly indifferent to human suffering all through the ages, doesn't it? No wonder the Old Testament portrays him as such a cruel and sadistic monster!

God is concerned for where you will spend your eternity. God suffered through the cross and by shunning Christ while on the cross. God suffers when people make wrong choices--- selecting to believe in things that exclude the Creator, and in events that never happed. Just like when Adam & Eve believed the Serpent instead of listening to God's warning. The simple fact is that sin corrupted the entire universe. It would seem rather unfair that some "man" living around Andromeda would have to suffer for the sin of Adam's race... And the proof of this fact is that seemingly black holes are swallowing entire solar systems and asteroids are striking planets everywhere, and yet here we are....
What is man that thou art mindful of him (since he is just a tiny speck).

None of what you said above really even begins to logically address the criticisms I raised of your beliefs. And here again you repeated the ridiculous assertion that Adam and Eve's "sin", committed on this infinitesimally tiny speck of a planet (compared to the rest of the universe) somehow corrupted the entire, incredibly vast universe! If the whole universe that God supposedly created could be that easily corrupted, then there is not the slightest valid basis for concluding that God is omnipotent or even particularly wise and competent!

Just when I thought you couldn't get any sillier, you come up with the ridiculous claim that the existence of black holes swallowing entire solar systems is proof of Adam and Eve's "sin." This confirms what I accused you of earlier--that you eagerly and uncritically embrace any bit of nonsense or illogic that you can possibly use or twist into some kind of confirmation of what you already believe, no matter how ridiculous and/or false, while rejecting out of hand even the most incontrovertible evidence and soundest reason that casts even the slightest bit of legitimate doubt on what you are determined to believe. Thankfully, most of humankind has moved beyond that kind of irrational, closed minded bigotry. Otherwise, we would still be suffering such terrors as witch hunts and murderous religious inquisitions!

[_Gunnar]

Nipper, if you saw a child being sexually abused and you knew you had the ability to stop it, can you think of a good reason not to?

How about it, Nipper? What is your answer to Bazooka's question?

[Guest]

Here is another little tidbit of information for the Nipper. Nothing in the Bible states nor did early Christians believe that Adam and Eve's "sin" corrupted the whole observable universe. They believed that only the earth and its inhabitants (and, of course, hell, which was believed to be somehow below the earth), were corrupted. That there was or even could be any corruption or imperfection in "the heavens", which to them included the moon, the sun and all the stars and planets we can see in the sky, was regarded as the foulest blasphemy and heresy. The mere suggestion that there could be any corruption or imperfection in the heavens could get one burned at the stake! The idea that everything we see in the heavens was made of the same "corruptible" substances that occur on the earth is a fairly recent concept that would have been vehemently rejected by virtually all Christians (especially the clergy) until just a few centuries ago. When telescopic observation of the Moon first revealed that it had "imperfections" such as craters, mountains and valleys instead of being a perfectly smooth and spherical object, Christian clergymen and theologians indignantly accused the observers of blasphemy and/or insisted that telescopes were tools of Satan that obscured the perfect and unchangeable reality of the heavens.

In short, the idea that Adam and Eve's "fall" affected anything more than the world we live on has absolutely no scriptural (let alone logical) basis and was never (at least not originally) a part of mainstream Christian theology. I doubt that it is a part of Christian theology even now, except, possibly, in the minds of a few fundamentalist, Christian extremists with a very poor grasp of both logic and the history of their own religion and religion in general. Come to think of it, they obviously have a very limited or distorted grasp of virtually every facet of human history, whether secular or religious--especially the history of science.