The Nehor has left the building...

[_schreech]

Liz, its unfortunate to see how quick some of the posters here are to turn on you. Either that or I didn't realize how much so many of them didn't like you (ouch, but join the club). Its unfortunate. Also, its amazing how sensitve posters here can be, but in the same breath blow out all sorts of offensive steam. Its like I gained a deeper understanding of many of the posters here, and its pretty sad to me.

Keep up the good work Stem!...I would just suggest pulling your nose out of DPs arse for a second to take a breath....

[_asbestosman]

I brought these up to him repeatedly and he steadfastly refused to back down from either.

Would a nebbish person refuse to back down?

I was left wondering: Would he say this stuff in front of someone whose loved one died in 9/11? Would he say this among people who know women who've been sexually harassed and/or raped? (Fact is, he *did*.) In any event, the bottom line is that I have zero respect for a person who holds these views. If he was here, he would deny that he has these views, in which case I'd simply provide links to the threads where he said this crap. Some people, I'm sure, are able to just shrug this stuff off (like you and Liz, apparently), but I just don't feel the same way.

Here's the thing for me Scratch. I agree that it's in poor taste to say such things in front of those who have been hurt by such circumstances. However, the rational part of me believes that we place undue fear and emphasis on airlines and terrorism instead of things which are far more dangerous such as automobiles. We don't live in daily fear about automobiles but road fatalities kill far more people. We could save many lives if we would do things like lower the speed limit, further restrict who can drive, etc. We won't do those things though. Instead we will continue to fight our overblown fears disproportionately to their actual danger.

But that's where I part from the Nehor. I agree with him that the fears are overblown, but I try to show some empathy for them even while I view them as disproportionate to the actual costs in lives. I have a similar issue to the fears of nuclear power. I disagree strongly with how much people fear it, but I accept that to be the case and do value letting people feel safe--even if that feeling of safety isn't completely rational. Statistics and rational arguments about other dangers mean little to a family who lost their loved ones in terrorist attacks. I also think the inconvenience is worth the feeling of safety people get from it--even though I don't think current security measures make us much safer.

With rape victims, I see things differently. I do think people can make poor decisions. I don't think any poor decision means the person deserves to be raped (unless maybe that poor decision was to become a rapist / child abuser himself). I also see a greater danger in victims blaming themselves rather than the risk of a victim not taking responsibility for what was done wrong. For example, if the situation wasn't rape but instead someone mugged for walking in the wrong part of town, I would still say he didn't deserve it but I would say he was really stupid. Should he feel bad that he walked in the wrong part of town? Yes. Should he feel like he deserved to be mugged? No.

[_Some Schmo]

What does suck is this thread. Nehor doesn't deserve to be spat on in this forum. It's unfortunate that religious differences can breed the caustic comments that we've seen here.

Alas, it's always been human nature, for some, to attack those that hold different religious views. Many ex-Mormons and/or disgruntled Mormons fall into the proverbial trap of looking at the "other" as being somehow "less than" or inferior to themselves simply because they believe in the restoration story.

You, mentalgymnast, are a prime example of how what you just said here isn't true. You and I have vastly different views, but I don't dislike you at all and have come to appreciate what seems to me an honest attempt on your part to understand the non-believer's side.

And you aren't the only one. I really like reading abs-man, Jason, Ceeboo, and liz, too. I find Nightlion highly entertaining. The fact that these people all believe differently than I do does nothing to make me dislike them. If you perceive "caustic comments" from me, they are generally aimed at ideas, not people (although I don't deny I've insulted people... but it's never been because they believe differently than I do). And I've been critical of the things people have said who others might consider "on my team": Stak, EA, Buff, Scottie, etc etc.

Nehor attracts these comments strictly because he acted like Nehor. He gave glib, nonsensical answers, made stupid jokes, acted like a complete hypocrite, and more times than not, sounded like he was full of crap. It had nothing to do with him being a believer. It was all because he was so dicfacious.

What you say may be true of a handful of people, but it's been my experience that it's not the case on this forum that people attack people just because of their beliefs. There's a difference between who you are and what you believe. Assuming as your identity what you believe, therefore, is problematic for that reason (among many others), to say the least.

---

And just for the record, I don't think liz intended to be malicious toward the members of this board with the 'vultures' comment. But then again, I like her, so maybe I'm biased. I, too, find it a bit surprising that people are getting this serious over what she's done here.

[_asbestosman]

What I've said about Nehor on this thread, I would not say of DCP/Belmont/Stem/Yahoo Bot/MG or what have you. Nehor didn't earn my scorn by being a basement dweller, he earned it for being a prick and douchebag to other people, in ways other TBMs/Defenders/Mopologists haven't in my time.

How about Will and Pahoran--just to get a point of reference?

Nehor doesn't suffer whining about the church gladly--especially from those who still attend church. He's also not afraid to tell Scratch what he thinks about Scratch's strange posts on Daniel Peterson and various apologist organizations. I've just grown tired of such things with Scratch and mostly ignore it.

Maybe I'm missing something though. What separates Nehor from Belmont in how he treats other people?

[_asbestosman]

Nehor attracts these comments strictly because he acted like Nehor. He gave glib, nonsensical answers, made stupid jokes,

I'm pretty sure I do that too sometimes. ETA: actually many times.

acted like a complete hypocrite,

I wasn't aware of that. What do you have in mind?

and more times than not, sounded like he was full of s***. It had nothing to do with him being a believer. It was all because he was so dicfacious.

How is that different from the way Simon is perceived? I always thought Simon was viewed as much worse on this front--for example with the recent thread where you invented the new word which is going viral.

There seems to be something else about Nehor--at least for Stak. Maybe you see Nehor as roughly equivalent to Simon?

[_jon]

Liz, its unfortunate to see how quick some of the posters here are to turn on you. Either that or I didn't realize how much so many of them didn't like you (ouch, but join the club).

Stem, I know you want to feel persecuted and picked on and feel that loads of people here don't like you. Sorry though, that's just not true. I cannot think of a single poster who dislikes you. Really, nobody.

Does anybody dislike Stem?

I just don't think you trouble people enough, or post anything that could be classed as substantial enough, for people to be bothered either way.

[_LDSToronto]

Does anybody dislike Stem?

I like Stem.

H.

[_stemelbow]

How the heck was I supposed to know anyone liked me, liked me. It seems like when comments about me come, they essentially are saying, you suck. I really don't mind, but I'm just reading the words put to me and making my observations.

really what I want, though, Jon, isn't to feel persecuted and picked on but a good understanding of the people who post here. I don't get much opportunity in life to discuss and get some honest thoughts from those who are, or claim to be, opposed to my religious persuasion. That's all. It just so happens in getting there I happen to read a bunch of comments directed at me or other LDS suggesting how bad we are, which in the end may give me what I'm looking for to some extent.

[_Quasimodo]

How the heck was I supposed to know anyone liked me, liked me. It seems like when comments about me come, they essentially are saying, you suck. I really don't mind, but I'm just reading the words put to me and making my observations.

really what I want, though, Jon, isn't to feel persecuted and picked on but a good understanding of the people who post here. I don't get much opportunity in life to discuss and get some honest thoughts from those who are, or claim to be, opposed to my religious persuasion. That's all. It just so happens in getting there I happen to read a bunch of comments directed at me or other LDS suggesting how bad we are, which in the end may give me what I'm looking for to some extent.

I like you, Stem. I think you may have some trouble believing that, but it's true.

[_Some Schmo]

How the heck was I supposed to know anyone liked me, liked me. It seems like when comments about me come, they essentially are saying, you suck. I really don't mind, but I'm just reading the words put to me and making my observations.

really what I want, though, Jon, isn't to feel persecuted and picked on but a good understanding of the people who post here. I don't get much opportunity in life to discuss and get some honest thoughts from those who are, or claim to be, opposed to my religious persuasion. That's all. It just so happens in getting there I happen to read a bunch of comments directed at me or other LDS suggesting how bad we are, which in the end may give me what I'm looking for to some extent.

The problem is that you will never understand the people who post if you regularly misattribute the reasons for them saying the things they do to you believing your religion. I've seen you do this countless times. If you write off a criticism as "it's not what he/she is criticizing, it's my belief that makes him/her say that" that saves you from having to seriously consider the criticism.

I've mentioned this before, and you don't seem to grasp it. In fact, as you read this, I have little doubt you're defensive mechanisms are kicking in and preventing you from understanding yet again.

Now I feel a "pep pep... oh well, it's just sad, I can't believe you guys" coming on any second now...

acted like a complete hypocrite,

I wasn't aware of that. What do you have in mind?

Mostly the way he treated Nightlion. Nehor mocked him as if Nightlion's brand of lunacy was much different from his own. It's just not right. At least Nightlion's brand is much more charming/entertaining (to me, anyway). I also get a sense that Nightlion actually believes his own shtick. I never got that feeling from Nehor.