Senior free labour provider dies whilst mowing a church lawn

[MG 2.0]

Exactly.

That’s some great missionary work, Fibber.

And I barely scratched the surface of his personal attacks. Listing them all would take forever.

I suppose I can't expect you to change your behavior at this point. It is what it is. The principle of repentance and forgiveness seems to be a foreign concept to you. We all have people that we think have wronged us or those we're close to throughout our lives. It's worth considering that when we carry those grudges around and don't get them off of our backs, those grudges can weigh us down in one way or another. It can show up as anger and/or a number of other manifestations that are really not spiritually/mentally healthy. The fact that you're considering a list that "goes on forever" seems to show that you have not been able to relieve yourself of a certain burden.

Regards,
MG

[Gadianton]

Apparently, you think you have the intellectual capacity to make "that decision" I'm talking about.

You've done nearly the same. You've thrown God in the trash for the most part, and only drag out God as the architect of really vague notions, and then refuse to clarify what you mean. As you did this time. I have to say, given the fact you've complained so much about being called names recently, it's interesting that you refused to respond to my questions. You should explain what you mean by a personal God giving Sock Puppet the very air that he needs for survival. You should explain how your views in recent threads are compatible with the idea of a personal God when you appear to attribute most events in this world as "random" (mother nature).

Very much like DCP. I could never get him to respond to questions. Instead, he'd spend most of his time fishing for offense.

[MG 2.0]

Apparently, you think you have the intellectual capacity to make "that decision" I'm talking about.

You've done nearly the same. You've thrown God in the trash for the most part, and only drag out God as the architect of really vague notions...You should explain what you mean by a personal God...You should explain how your views in recent threads are compatible with the idea of a personal God when you appear to attribute most events in this world as "random" (mother nature).

What are the "vague notions" you are referring to? Just to simplify things and make them less vague. I don't know that I have the "intellectual capacity" to describe a "personal God" in any kind of detail. Not to the same extent that you seem to have in explaining away a personal God through philosophical manipulations. For me, it's either God or no god. If God, then...why me? God=purpose and meaning for me. I exist. I choose to think that the 'creation' had a Creator. It's a stretch to have the faith to go the other direction and simply try and use math to explain it all. Where did the math come from? There are too many unknown variables to disbelieve in God. So, we end up with multiverse. Right. There are more known variables...the math...to believe that we are not here by accident. Anthropic principle. Goldilocks effect.

We just happen to be in the right place to be the 'observer'? I think there is more to it than that.

Anyway, what vague notions are you referring to?

Regards,
MG

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

It’s kind of weird seeing a topic like this come up, and then to scale out one’s perspective to the enormity of the known and unknown universe(s) while also picturing an old man cutting grass believing a god is pleased with him for doing so. The sheer absurdity of it all is sort of astonishing. Presumably, a Type 5 or 6 civilization God would be doing Type 5 or 6 kinds of things and then It takes a moment to think, “crap. I need my lawn maintained at the Missouri site. Hrm. I’ll inspire Brother Blackburn to mow it. Nice. I’ll promote him to Spirit Prison Grounds and Maintenance when he’s dead.

Ope! Guess that’s now.”

- Doc

[Everybody Wang Chung]

It’s kind of weird seeing a topic like this come up, and then to scale out one’s perspective to the enormity of the known and unknown universe(s) while also picturing an old man cutting grass believing a god is pleased with him for doing so. The sheer absurdity of it all is sort of astonishing. Presumably, a Type 5 or 6 civilization God would be doing Type 5 or 6 kinds of things and then It takes a moment to think, “crap. I need my lawn maintained at the Missouri site. Hrm. I’ll inspire Brother Blackburn to mow it. Nice. I’ll promote him to Spirit Prison Grounds and Maintenance when he’s dead.

Ope! Guess that’s now.”

- Doc

You've perfectly articulated the core absurdity of it all. A Type 5 or 6 civilization could presumably deal in things like manipulating black holes, creating pocket dimensions/universes, or simply make sure their intergalactic mail gets delivered faster than the speed of light. And yet, when we try to connect that to our earthly concept of a higher power, we're left with a lawn care-obsessed deity micromanaging Brother Blackburn's weekend chores.

Good Lord!

[Rivendale]

It’s kind of weird seeing a topic like this come up, and then to scale out one’s perspective to the enormity of the known and unknown universe(s) while also picturing an old man cutting grass believing a god is pleased with him for doing so. The sheer absurdity of it all is sort of astonishing. Presumably, a Type 5 or 6 civilization God would be doing Type 5 or 6 kinds of things and then It takes a moment to think, “crap. I need my lawn maintained at the Missouri site. Hrm. I’ll inspire Brother Blackburn to mow it. Nice. I’ll promote him to Spirit Prison Grounds and Maintenance when he’s dead.

Ope! Guess that’s now.”

- Doc

Thanks for that. I have tried to articulate that and you did it perfectly. I have a background in astronomy and deal with the enormous aspect of what is out there and to think that these service projects please a god is beyond the pale.

[Kishkumen]

It’s kind of weird seeing a topic like this come up, and then to scale out one’s perspective to the enormity of the known and unknown universe(s) while also picturing an old man cutting grass believing a god is pleased with him for doing so. The sheer absurdity of it all is sort of astonishing. Presumably, a Type 5 or 6 civilization God would be doing Type 5 or 6 kinds of things and then It takes a moment to think, “crap. I need my lawn maintained at the Missouri site. Hrm. I’ll inspire Brother Blackburn to mow it. Nice. I’ll promote him to Spirit Prison Grounds and Maintenance when he’s dead.

Ope! Guess that’s now.”

- Doc

I don’t see it this way at all. According to my understanding, people of deep religious devotion see their service as an offering to God. They give what they can. They feel it important to give their best. Mowing a lawn is an honorable offering in their view. I see nothing ridiculous in it at all. That’s my view. I find such devotion and faith positively moving. The missionary who mows the lawn with pure devotion is as important as a prophet.

[Gadianton]

What are the "vague notions" you are referring to?

The vague notion that God "gave Sock Puppet breath". What does that mean exactly?

Just to simplify things and make them less vague. I don't know that I have the "intellectual capacity" to describe a "personal God" in any kind of detail. Not to the same extent that you seem to have in explaining away a personal God through philosophical manipulations.

Well, MG, you seem to know that God gave Sock Puppet breath, but also know by common sense, that he didn't cause the mudslide that wrecked the chapel or cause the lawn mower in this thread to overturn. So you actually claim to know quite a bit about how a personal God works and can tell us when God is intervening and when he isn't. I don't believe God destroyed the chapel with a mudslide or overturned the lawn mower, and my reasoning seems to be pretty similar to yours. So that means you have explained away God just as I have in these instances.

For me, it's either God or no god. If God, then...why me? God=purpose and meaning for me. I exist.

It doesn't sound like it. What was the purpose of the mud slide or this lawn mower incident? you sweep it under the rug by saying it was a random event of mother nature. In fact, this is how you have characterized the vast majority of events. In other words, God doesn't provide purpose or meaning to nearly any events in the world. This is according to you.

You make this vague statement: "God created all things in a natural order" But the meaning of the terms in the way you use them seem to result in a self-contradicting sentence. You seem to be saying, "God created all things in a random order such that if a mudslide hits a chapel God didn't do it, mother nature did". You use the term "mother nature" to avoid crediting God, who created mother nature. God creating "mother nature" is like me writing a computer program and executing it. The program does exactly what I told it to. Mother nature did exactly what God told "her" to do. The question is, why did God destroy the chapel? You might claim not to know the answer, but that's different than your claim that he didn't do it, that it was a random natural event. There are no random natural events if God created the natural order.

[MG 2.0]

What are the "vague notions" you are referring to?

The vague notion that God "gave Sock Puppet breath". What does that mean exactly?

Just to simplify things and make them less vague. I don't know that I have the "intellectual capacity" to describe a "personal God" in any kind of detail. Not to the same extent that you seem to have in explaining away a personal God through philosophical manipulations.

Well, MG, you seem to know that God gave Sock Puppet breath, but also know by common sense, that he didn't cause the mudslide that wrecked the chapel or cause the lawn mower in this thread to overturn. So you actually claim to know quite a bit about how a personal God works and can tell us when God is intervening and when he isn't. I don't believe God destroyed the chapel with a mudslide or overturned the lawn mower, and my reasoning seems to be pretty similar to yours. So that means you have explained away God just as I have in these instances.

For me, it's either God or no god. If God, then...why me? God=purpose and meaning for me. I exist.

It doesn't sound like it. What was the purpose of the mud slide or this lawn mower incident? you sweep it under the rug by saying it was a random event of mother nature. In fact, this is how you have characterized the vast majority of events. In other words, God doesn't provide purpose or meaning to nearly any events in the world. This is according to you.

You make this vague statement: "God created all things in a natural order" But the meaning of the terms in the way you use them seem to result in a self-contradicting sentence. You seem to be saying, "God created all things in a random order such that if a mudslide hits a chapel God didn't do it, mother nature did". You use the term "mother nature" to avoid crediting God, who created mother nature. God creating "mother nature" is like me writing a computer program and executing it. The program does exactly what I told it to. Mother nature did exactly what God told "her" to do. The question is, why did God destroy the chapel? You might claim not to know the answer, but that's different than your claim that he didn't do it, that it was a random natural event. There are no random natural events if God created the natural order.

But there is purpose and meaning to what happens in the world. The opposition provides opportunities for growth and human kindness that would not flourish to the extent that it does without a cause/effect that triggers much of the good, and evil, that humans do and/or inflict on each other. I don't see a contradiction at all between recognizing that we live in a world of nature and taking more or less a naturalistic view of things. It provides a whole lot of 'lab work' for humans to matriculate to the next level or sliding into apathy and despair. The loose ends are taken care of through Christ's Atonement. In fact, without the Atonement it seems to me as though the chaos would have little or no hope of being resolved. Everything would look like and essentially become a tangled mess with a hard stop. Crap hits the fan and stays there. Not a pretty sight.

The more I think about it, I think that Christ's Atonement for sin and all the evil that happens in the world is the only thing that really makes sense. That is, if the human soul continues to exist after death. If not, it's an absolute crap shoot.

Regards,
MG

[malkie]

Complete lack of evidence that "the human soul continues to exist after death" points to an obvious conclusion.