I'm so glad the church spares no expense...

[_The Nehor]

I am just curious whether the critics who have become somewhat exercised over this issue may view themselves as waxing a bit judgemental and/or as having become somewhat of a "busy body" and a gossip?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Hi there, Wade. My answer is: No. Instead, I view myself as being an honest critic of the Church who finds it appalling that hard-earned tithing dollars would be flushed away on such frivolities.

And really, what business does the founder of websites such as the "Same-sex Attraction Disorders Clinic," and theories such as the "Mr. D Theory" have in doling out "judgemental" posts such as yours?

I find it appalling that you're appalled.

Of course you are. Just like you're "appalled" at getting called "a sheep," despite comments such as:

If the Church released a complete report on tithes and exactly how they are spent I probably wouldn't read it.

Follow the Leader, Nehor! When the leaders speak, the thinking has been done! Follow the prophet!

As for this, I have to say I'm kind of stunned at your complete, cold-hearted lack of sympathy:

I know they build Temples, build and maintain meetinghouses, apportion budgets, pay for the Elder's Quorum Steak and Halo parties, maintain administration at Church HQ, Mission Administration, maintain Universities, buy, invest in, and maintain outside interests that the Brethren believe are necessary. Looking at the numbers people act like they're shocked that more tithing isn't spent on aiding the poor. I was surprised that any was spent. This is what Fast Offerings are for.

(emphasis added)

Screw them, right? It's their own fault? The Church doesn't exist to help anyone?

Hahahaha. I'm cold-hearted because I accept that there are two funds in the Church and that one goes to support the Church and the other takes care of those in need?

I'm a sheep because I don't read financial reports? I'm gonna drop another bombshell here. I don't read the whole financial reports that come out for the companies I have stock in either. What's wrong with being a sheep anyways? The Savior spoke more highly of sheep than goats, you old goat. :)

I'm appalled at your appalling response to my being appalled at your appallingness.

[_ozemc]

If God doesn't reject gold fillings I'm pretty sure he won't reject these extravagant temples.

You're kidding, right?

<boy, I hope so!>

[Gadianton]

I'm not going to break up the post with quotes because quite frankly that is troublesome to me and more than my fragile mind can endure.

So, as to organized religion -- Christianity in this case. It seems often those that profess to be Christians, and are earnest in following the gospel, wish not to judge others. Yet, often times they fall short on that. I have no desire to hold myself up to such standards. I'm just lazy. I would see of those that do try to hold themselves to such a high standard that they may be in quite the pickle when they find themselves judging others morality or sinfulness as the judgment is in and of itself not appropriate for a Christian. Quite the quandary, I'd think! I was thinking that may be where you found yourself in this thread. Yet, perhaps not.

I suppose there may be some Christians who interpret the scriptures narrowly, selectively, and rigidly to mean that they shouldn't judge other people in any way sort or form.

However, in my own experience, I have found such interpretations to not be all that common.

For my own part, I don't view the scriptures (as a whole) as suggesting anything close to a sweeping prohabition against judging. In fact, my reading of the scriptures suggest to me that there may be a moral obligation to judge (though do so righteously) in various matters and circumstances. It is just that I have found that other strategies are more successful in certain situations such as this. In other word, the seemingly paradoxical difficulties you suppose for Christians in general in relation to judgements, I suspect would only actually apply to the relatively few Christians who may interpret the scriptures in a narrow, selective, and rigidly way you may have.

On to the next thing: I appreciate your contributions to this board when you come in and try to navigate calm, reasonable discussions. So as to your motives I'll take you at your word.

That is greatly appreciated and respected.

Finally, I have no personal experience with being a Christian. Yet, as I went into above, I would imagine it takes one of great character and determination to be morally righteous and never find themselves judging another.

Again, I believe the scriptures suggesting that great character and moral righteous would, at times, necessitate judging others. I think acts that are markedly harmful to others are not only deserving of judgement, but morally imparity of judgement.

In this discussion, though, my interest is in exploring whether the approach that some have chosen to take in assessing the actions of the Church in selecting materials to be used in the temple, may be in anyone's best interest--though ultimately leaving to each to decide that for themsleves.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_ozemc]

Since you ask how we members feel. I feel great about it. Temples are lovely buildings and if you read the inscription on each temple it is a House of the Lord. We don't expect our Lord and Savior to have to stay in a Motel 6.

I always find people living in the affluence of America complaining that the Church isn't doing more for the poor peole of the world to be pretty pathetic. That's right. Let somebody else take care of the poor. And then gripe they don't do it better than they do.

I pay tithing which supports the building of temples. I think that is a great way to spend the Lord's money. You who don't pay tithing have absolutely NO standing in the matter.

I pay tithing and think overly expensive wood from Africa is silly. I do not think the God of this Universe really expects that if he visits this structure.

Well, since I think that the God of the Universe could create anything he wanted to, I would think that if He wanted a temple like this, He could build one.

[_Moniker]

If God doesn't reject gold fillings I'm pretty sure he won't reject these extravagant temples.

You're kidding, right?

<boy, I hope so!>

You should take everything I type seriously!

[_Moniker]

Wade, I wasn't aware that Christians were not supposed to judge others! Wow! No kidding. I've heard that all the time from EVs that lambaste each other that they're being judgmental (of course by saying that they're judging the one that is being judgmental *insert wacko smilie here*).

Any-who-ha. I don't care if people judge each others behavior. Unless of course they themselves say we shouldn't be doing so ourselves. ;)

[_ozemc]

If God doesn't reject gold fillings I'm pretty sure he won't reject these extravagant temples.

You're kidding, right?

<boy, I hope so!>

You should take everything I type seriously!

And I will take it with all seriousness. ;-)

[_wenglund]

I am just curious whether the critics who have become somewhat exercised over this issue may view themselves as waxing a bit judgemental and/or as having become somewhat of a "busy body" and a gossip?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Hi there, Wade. My answer is: No. Instead, I view myself as being an honest critic of the Church who finds it appalling that hard-earned tithing dollars would be flushed away on such frivolities.

I appreciate you responding to my query, and I will duly note your self-perception.

And really, what business does the founder of websites such as the "Same-sex Attraction Disorders Clinic," and theories such as the "Mr. D Theory" have in doling out "judgemental" posts such as yours?

Your question contains a presupposition (about my posts being "judgemental") that doesn't comport with my view, so I can't reasonably answer it as asked.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Charity said:

We don't expect our Lord and Savior to have to stay in a Motel 6.

Why not? Not enough bling bling for Jesus. If I recall correctly, there was no room at the Inn when Jesus was born. So now we know the whole story. There was no room for them at the Hilton. There were vacancies at the Motel 6, but Jesus was too good for that.

[_wenglund]

Wade, I wasn't aware that Christians were not supposed to judge others! Wow! No kidding. I've heard that all the time from EVs that lambaste each other that they're being judgmental (of course by saying that they're judging the one that is being judgmental *insert wacko smilie here*).

Any-who-ha. I don't care if people judge each others behavior. Unless of course they themselves say we shouldn't be doing so ourselves. ;)

I see a key distinction between judgementalism and judging righteously (i.e. when the circumstances morally warrant it). To me, judgementalism is a habit or attitude that tends to be an end unto itself (judging people mearly for the sake of judging) or which serves little or no functional purpose--though some may suppose it de-elevates the esteem of others in relation to themselves (an artificial way of making themselves feel better about themselves and somehow seem morally superior); whereas, righteous judgements may well serve useful purposes in elevating all parties concerned (in esteem or otherwise).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-