Happy Valley Photo Essay

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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Kishkumen wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:I'm entirely fascinated by psychology. Does anyone get the impression that the line between message boards and in real life just permanently and visibly blurred on that blog?


I was astonished to see what happened. It was a moment of truth to be sure. The cat is out of the bag.


Well, I will leave it to you all to further comment right now. I'm just saying that as a person who is non-LDS affiliated on these boards, what I think I saw take place in the comments section is remarkable from a psyche perspective.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Kishkumen
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Kishkumen »

Jersey Girl wrote:Well, I will leave it to you all to further comment right now. I'm just saying that as a person who is non-LDS affiliated on these boards, what I think I saw take place in the comments section is remarkable from a psyche perspective.


I don't have anything to add. Saying anything more will do no good anyway.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_sock puppet
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _sock puppet »

Jersey Girl wrote:I'm entirely fascinated by psychology. Does anyone get the impression that the line between message boards and in real life just permanently and visibly blurred on that blog?
Kishkumen wrote:I was astonished to see what happened. It was a moment of truth to be sure. The cat is out of the bag.
Jersey Girl wrote:Well, I will leave it to you all to further comment right now. I'm just saying that as a person who is non-LDS affiliated on these boards, what I think I saw take place in the comments section is remarkable from a psyche perspective.
This, Jersey Girl, is why I think Dr Scratch's "nuclear-level meltdown" was so apt. I think the Mopologist goal should be properly circumscribed to helping questioning members sort out troubling information that conflicts with the Church's truth claims. This is probably best done in the confines of personal interviews, not publications like the FARMS review--but at least there, the 'product' can undergo editorial taming down before it becomes published and public. Not on message boards (even where as here Mormonism is the dedicated topic) for thousands to see, as it can stir up more cognitive dissonance for the doubting Mormon who sees the rebuttals to the defenses and sees the mean-spirited 'politics of personal destruction' used by the defenders to try to discredit the critics (and thereby defuse their criticisms of Mormonism). And particularly not in the mainstream 'net, such as Time online, where personal, mean-spirited and poor-me defenses are out there for all Time readers to stumble across without so much as doing a Google search for things Mormon, and the reiterations of criticisms in that same forum that are leveled in response to the defenses being aired there.

Religious apologetics should be tucked away in a small, obscure corner that is quiet and does not attract attention, but is a resource that doubting members can contact or be referred to for personal explanations of the defenses to that information that is contrary to the religion's truth claims.

However, when they publish, when they go online--particularly outside the confines of places that are dedicated to Mormon topics, such as outside like the Time online site it--the apologist draws attention that does more harm to his religion than it possibly could do good. But in their hubris, the bloated egos of apologists, and in this case the NAMIRS trio+Schryver, could not help themselves. They do not have enough self-discipline to have checked themselves from embarrassing themselves and their own religious cause.

In short, they demonstrated a nuclear-level meltdown, Simon's inclinations and opinions to the contrary notwithstanding.
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Kishkumen wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:I'm entirely fascinated by psychology. Does anyone get the impression that the line between message boards and in real life just permanently and visibly blurred on that blog?


I was astonished to see what happened. It was a moment of truth to be sure. The cat is out of the bag.


Did I miss something?

Ultimately, the whole thing could have been avoided if Dan had simply said, "Gee, you know--I stand by my opinion of the photos and the essay, but you all are probably right that I could have expressed myself differently." What is so hard about that?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Kishkumen
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Kishkumen »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Did I miss something?

Ultimately, the whole thing could have been avoided if Dan had simply said, "Gee, you know--I stand by my opinion of the photos and the essay, but you all are probably right that I could have expressed myself differently." What is so hard about that?


I am surprised that you think little of the fact that Dr. Peterson mentioned you in his comments. I thought it was a stunningly revealing moment.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_MrStakhanovite
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

BTW- who dropped that link to MAD about Billie Schryver lotioning his daughter's feet during GC?
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Kishkumen wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:Did I miss something?

Ultimately, the whole thing could have been avoided if Dan had simply said, "Gee, you know--I stand by my opinion of the photos and the essay, but you all are probably right that I could have expressed myself differently." What is so hard about that?


I am surprised that you think little of the fact that Dr. Peterson mentioned you in his comments. I thought it was a stunningly revealing moment.


Huh. Yeah, I saw that, but thought that it was just another day at the office for Dr. P. Maybe he should post a link to his Amazon reviews and Wish List, so that everyone can ridicule it in the same manner that he responded to the photo essay? And then, when he blows his lid, we can all shrug and wriggle our eyebrows Rasputinishly, claiming that it's "fascinating" that he would react in such a way to mere expressing of a negative opinion.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_TrashcanMan79
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _TrashcanMan79 »

MrStakhanovite wrote:BTW- who dropped that link to MAD about Billie Schryver lotioning his daughter's feet during GC?

One of the creepiest things I've ever read -- and I've read SeattleGhostWriter.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Kishkumen »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Huh. Yeah, I saw that, but thought that it was just another day at the office for Dr. P. Maybe he should post a link to his Amazon reviews and Wish List, so that everyone can ridicule it in the same manner that he responded to the photo essay? And then, when he blows his lid, we can all shrug and wriggle our eyebrows Rasputinishly, claiming that it's "fascinating" that he would react in such a way to mere expressing of a negative opinion.


Well, he did just offer the casual sleuth plenty of information to undertake an investigation into the history of your exchanges. I know that he probably sees no problem with that, but to some of us it looks like a can of worms was just opened. Dr. Peterson is, to the interested onlooking public at large, suddenly the BYU professor and apologist who has waged a years-long online conflict with an anonymous person in very much the same tone that these TIME comments were written. I don't know how many people will poke around, but a few undoubtedly will. Maybe even Brother Otterson or some other COB functionary.

I'm just saying that I wouldn't have done that. But maybe that's just me.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

I see what you mean, Reverend. I've often wondered why certain apologists haven't made a stronger effort to go back and have some of their earlier online behavior erased and/or edited. For example, I don't understand why Prof. Hamblin's K-word-laced rant is still right there, available for all to see over at FAIR. I don't understand why these guys haven't asked Stan Barker to yank a lot of that SHIELDS stuff. I mean, if they're will to "stop the presses" in order to clear "Metcalfe is Butthead" out of the FARMS Review, you'd think they'd see nothing wrong in trying to go back and set things straight in places where it's a lot easier to do so.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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