Shulem wrote:Which proves my point, you refuse to separate the Book of Abraham from your idea that god told you that the Book of Mormon is true. You link the voice you heard in your head to three others things, i.e., Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, and Book of Abraham. You are allowing the voice you heard in your head to cloud your judgement and to discount the evidences that prove all of them are false.
There is no "voice in my head". The Holy Ghost is real, much more so than you think. He reveals all truth. The Book of Mormon is the starting point. Once you know that is true, you know without a doubt that Joseph Smith was a prophet. Once you know that, you take everything else seriously, and you don't just dismiss him at the whim of a biased critic. You examine the evidence more carefully. And my examination of the evidence against the Book of Abraham leads me to conclude that they are not as conclusive that the critics like to portray it to be; whereas on the other hand the Holy Spirit bears the same witness to me of the truth of the translated text of the Book of Abraham that it does of the Book of Mormon. I know that they are all true and the word of God; so I am not persuaded by your arguments.
You are biased, unscientific, and illogical. You are the member of a cult bearing testimony to us that the voice you heard in your head is supreme over all other things. You've deceived yourself and I can safely reject your testimony as nonsense.
That doesn't come to me as a surprise, coming from someone whose God is quantum physics, and who believes that in the next life he will be resurrected as a living, breathing quantum.
zerinus wrote:One other possibility is that they are the original autographs, and the Egyptologists have got it wrong. Still another possibility is that what we currently have are not the ones that the book of Abraham were translated from....[T]he current book of Abraham that we now have is what it claims to be.
Every single statement here has been proven to be NOT true. If Zerinus wants to stick to his testimony, fine, but why argue for things that are literally untrue?
Shulem wrote:Is it possible that Joseph Smith actually believed through his Holy Ghost that the papyrus he used to translate the Book of Abraham was a literal 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph? Is it POSSIBLE?
It is possible (certain) that Joseph Smith knew by the power of the Holy Ghost that the papyrus contained the writings of Abraham. Is it possible that he thereby also drew the inference (rightly or wrongly) that they were the original autographs? That is also possible. Is it also possible that he inadvertently used language to describe it that might unintentionally give that impression? That is also possible. Other possibilities also exist. One other possibility is that they are the original autographs, and the Egyptologists have got it wrong. Still another possibility is that what we currently have are not the ones that the book of Abraham were translated from. One thing we cannot have any doubts about is that he was a true prophet, and the current book of Abraham that we now have is what it claims to be.
It is also possible that a monkey will crawl out of your butt. Not very probable, infinitely small possibility, on the same order of possibility that the dating, and the Egyptologists are wrong about the papyrus, and that Joseph Smith was right (he isn't ).
There is also an invisible pink unicorn living in my garage.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
Philo Sofee wrote:The atheist argument was never better presented....
It is actually an argument in favor of Mormonism. You see, they consider the Bible to be their "authority," which is manifestly unable to settle their disputes; whereas Mormonism has a different kind of "authority," which IS able to settle such disputes.
Philo Sofee wrote:It absolutely is NOT. I originated this thread. The issue is the literal autographic claims of Joseph Smith, not other scriptures. YOU do not get to call the shots in THIS thread, I DO. I originated it. You are perfectly free to discuss the other scriptures in other threads you start. HERE they are irrelevant.
I think that whether the Book of Mormon is true or not has a bearing on whether the Book of Abraham is true or not.
zerinus wrote:One other possibility is that they are the original autographs, and the Egyptologists have got it wrong. Still another possibility is that what we currently have are not the ones that the book of Abraham were translated from....[T]he current book of Abraham that we now have is what it claims to be.
Every single statement here has been proven to be NOT true. If Zerinus wants to stick to his testimony, fine, but why argue for things that are literally untrue?
It is also possible that a monkey will crawl out of your butt. Not very probable, infinitely small possibility, on the same order of possibility that the dating, and the Egyptologists are wrong about the papyrus, and that Joseph Smith was right (he isn't ).
I stand corrected. Steelhead's assessment of the probabilities is far more accurate, and accurately stated.
Philo Sofee wrote:You forgot to say its also possible that Joseph Smith was wrong. Its also possible he is a false prophet. Its also possible you are wrong. The evidence shows all this, so it is very possible.
That is the one thing that is not possible. I have established that for myself as a matter of fact.
Philo Sofee wrote:It absolutely is NOT. I originated this thread. The issue is the literal autographic claims of Joseph Smith, not other scriptures. YOU do not get to call the shots in THIS thread, I DO. I originated it. You are perfectly free to discuss the other scriptures in other threads you start. HERE they are irrelevant.
I think that whether the Book of Mormon is true or not has a bearing on whether the Book of Abraham is true or not.
I absolutely agree. This is why I can no longer believe in the Book of Mormon because the the book of Abraham is obviously false.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
cwald wrote:I absolutely agree. This is why I can no longer believe in the Book of Mormon because the the book of Abraham is obviously false.
Actually it doesn’t matter a lot which way you look at it. You can start with the Book of Abraham and gain a witness of its truth, and then move on to the Book of Mormon; or you could start with the Book of Mormon. Normally people start with the Book of Mormon. Either way you get to the same place in the end—that Joseph Smith was a true prophet, and restored God’s true Church on earth.
