Torches at High Noon: A Fog Machine, Power Lines, An Angry Extra and Brigham Young’s Electric Boogaloo

[Doctor Scratch]

I had always dreamed of seeing Salt Lake City, and 0ur conversation with Matt Grow finally made that possible for me. Moreover, when my co-hosts and the film crew took a lunch break from our interviews and walked over to The Garden Restaurant in the Joseph Smith Memorial Building, I went with them — and, by so doing, I was privileged to fulfill one of my other life-long ambitions: I ate half of a French Dip sandwich and washed it down with cold water that had been poured over genuine ice made from the chemical compound H2O. And I did it entirely at the expense of Redbrick Filmworks.

How kind of Redbrick Filmworks to produce Interpreter films pro-bono! A whole year’s worth! Talk about the Art of the Deal!

Indeed! And I hear that Redbrick owns a tree that actually grows money! It thrives thanks to donor funding from Interpreter, which pays for the water and fertilizer.

Meanwhile, I’m baffled that the Afore and his wife would donate money to interpreter, only to turn around and then charge Interpreter for the cost of a print cartridge. Seems strange: why not cut out the middleman and just buy the cartridge outright and then donate less?

[I Have Questions]

I had always dreamed of seeing Salt Lake City, and 0ur conversation with Matt Grow finally made that possible for me. Moreover, when my co-hosts and the film crew took a lunch break from our interviews and walked over to The Garden Restaurant in the Joseph Smith Memorial Building, I went with them — and, by so doing, I was privileged to fulfill one of my other life-long ambitions: I ate half of a French Dip sandwich and washed it down with cold water that had been poured over genuine ice made from the chemical compound H2O. And I did it entirely at the expense of Redbrick Filmworks.

How kind of Redbrick Filmworks to produce Interpreter films pro-bono! A whole year’s worth! Talk about the Art of the Deal!

In the last 5 or 6 years Redbrick Filmworks appears to have had just one client. They’ve received millions of dollars from that one client. They’ve spent some of that income on hospitality for the President of their one client. Why is he so desperate to try and mislead people about this? Has Redbrick paid for more than just his “hospitality”? Has he charged them a “consultancy”? Does he get “kickbacks” for putting projects their way? It’s certainly not an arms length transparent relationship.

[Tom]

A few excerpts from episode four of Bowdlerizing Brigham:

Fox: I’m curious, when it comes to difficult issues in church history, what is the church history department’s stance on that?

Grow: Really, the stance of church leaders is that we should discuss challenging topics openly, and within the household of faith. For us that means that if there is a challenging topic in church history or church doctrine or whatever, we should discuss it in our families, and in seminary classes, and in Sunday school classes. That this shouldn’t be something a returned missionary is browsing social media in their mid-twenties and they learn something that shocks them or rocks their world. And the church has really made a tremendous effort. It’s really hard to find another religious organization that puts as much effort into making its history accessible.
=====

None of the other discussants pushes back against any of Grow’s claims. I don’t know what type of Sunday school classes, for example, that Grow attends.

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Peterson: Well, one of the questions that’s often raised in connection with Brigham Young, especially Brigham Young, is can a flawed human being be a prophet of God? Well, my response to that would be what alternatives does God have? Do you know of many unflawed human beings? I know of one…. You know, the Lord has to work with flawed people. He has no alternative possibilities.

Grow: It’s irresponsible to think that a prophet can be separated from the culture in which he lives. The interesting thing is not that a prophet is influenced by his culture. The interesting thing is sometimes the Lord helps them see beyond the culture.
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Did the Lord help Young “see beyond the culture” pertaining to violence or racial discrimination? Did the Lord enlighten Young on the topic of interracial marriage? Note the Proprietor’s recent remarks on Young’s priesthood ban that are quoted in my signature line.

A final note: I’m perplexed that each episode of Bowdlerizing Brigham is so short. Each episode seems to scratch the surface.

[Marcus]

Thank you for posting those excerpts, Tom, that was very interesting.

Grow: "... It’s really hard to find another religious organization that puts as much effort into making its history accessible..."

It continues to astonish me that when Mormons compare themselves to any other group, on virtually every possible subject, they inevitably conclude they are the absolute best ever.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Mormons fail regularly at the most basic tasks, such as protecting children from abuse, following the law with respect to financial holdings, treating fellow community members with respect when zoning issues are confronted, telling the truth ("we are not a wealthy people..."), distinguishing between fact and fiction regarding historical artifacts, etc.

[I Have Questions]

Grow: Really, the stance of church leaders is that we should discuss challenging topics openly, and within the household of faith. For us that means that if there is a challenging topic in church history or church doctrine or whatever, we should discuss it in our families, and in seminary classes, and in Sunday school classes. That this shouldn’t be something a returned missionary is browsing social media in their mid-twenties and they learn something that shocks them or rocks their world. And the church has really made a tremendous effort. It’s really hard to find another religious organization that puts as much effort into making its history accessible.

It would be really hard to find another religious organisation that has put so much effort into hiding its history previously. It’s a ridiculous thing for Grow to claim.

Grow: It’s irresponsible to think that a prophet can be separated from the culture in which he lives. The interesting thing is not that a prophet is influenced by his culture. The interesting thing is sometimes the Lord helps them see beyond the culture.

So the benchmark for a Prophet, for a man that supposedly is the only person on earth trusted by God to be His spokesperson and to lead His church,with whom God communicates directly… is that “sometimes” he gets lucky? I wonder if Oaks likes Grow’s opinion of him as a Prophet - that he’s basically just a man of his time and that he may or may not be speaking something that is just his cultural upbringing coming out.

A final note: I’m perplexed that each episode of Bowdlerizing Brigham is so short. Each episode seems to scratch the surface.

They've watered it down so it goes further and so that they don’t “rock the world” of members who don’t know this stuff. Apologetics has a habit of backfiring. It’s very thin stuff. Superficial.

[Rivendale]

Thank you for posting those excerpts, Tom, that was very interesting.

Grow: "... It’s really hard to find another religious organization that puts as much effort into making its history accessible..."

It continues to astonish me that when Mormons compare themselves to any other group, on virtually every possible subject, they inevitably conclude they are the absolute best ever.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Mormons fail regularly at the most basic tasks, such as protecting children from abuse, following the law with respect to financial holdings, treating fellow community members with respect when zoning issues are confronted, telling the truth ("we are not a wealthy people..."), distinguishing between fact and fiction regarding historical artifacts, etc.

And this gem by Annette Dennis.

There is no other religious organization in the world, that I know of, that has so broadly given power and authority to women. There are religions that ordain some women to positions such as priests and pastors, but very few relative to the number of women in their congregations receive that authority.”

[I Have Questions]

Thank you for posting those excerpts, Tom, that was very interesting.

It continues to astonish me that when Mormons compare themselves to any other group, on virtually every possible subject, they inevitably conclude they are the absolute best ever.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Mormons fail regularly at the most basic tasks, such as protecting children from abuse, following the law with respect to financial holdings, treating fellow community members with respect when zoning issues are confronted, telling the truth ("we are not a wealthy people..."), distinguishing between fact and fiction regarding historical artifacts, etc.

And this gem by Annette Dennis.

There is no other religious organization in the world, that I know of, that has so broadly given power and authority to women. There are religions that ordain some women to positions such as priests and pastors, but very few relative to the number of women in their congregations receive that authority.”

I read things like the Annette Dennis quote and I wonder just who it is they think they are trying to convince.

[Marcus]

Thank you for posting those excerpts, Tom, that was very interesting.

It continues to astonish me that when Mormons compare themselves to any other group, on virtually every possible subject, they inevitably conclude they are the absolute best ever.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Mormons fail regularly at the most basic tasks, such as protecting children from abuse, following the law with respect to financial holdings, treating fellow community members with respect when zoning issues are confronted, telling the truth ("we are not a wealthy people..."), distinguishing between fact and fiction regarding historical artifacts, etc.

And this gem by Annette Dennis.

There is no other religious organization in the world, that I know of, that has so broadly given power and authority to women. There are religions that ordain some women to positions such as priests and pastors, but very few relative to the number of women in their congregations receive that authority.”

YES! Thank you for the reminder. "...Power and authority..." Please. I don't see how she said that while keeping a straight face.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

And this gem by Annette Dennis.

I read things like the Annette Dennis quote and I wonder just who it is they think they are trying to convince.

Mormon women.

[Physics Guy]

Anglicanism is a loose denomination, and nobody above a diocesan bishop really has much power, but diocesan bishops do have a lot of authority, and the usually more symbolic ranks above them sometimes matter as well. There have been quite a lot of female Anglican bishops around the world by now, including some leaders of national churches. The current Archbishop of Canterbury is a woman. She’s the first, but even the Church of England finally got there.

There are only about 1.5 million Anglicans (Episcopalians) in the US, but there are somewhere around a hundred million Anglicans in the world.