Mormonism's OA and the mighty F-S chain

[I Have Questions]

Gadianton:
This is a good question, MG, thank you for participating rather than derailing.

In the story of the Sneetches that I had AI comment on in this thread, is it better to have a star or not have a star?

<snip>

Why haven’t you used the quote function for Gadianton’s words?

[MG 2.0]

Trolls are gonna troll....

TTOC

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Trolls are gonna troll....

TTOC

FIHOOHEM (Fibber Is Having One Of His Epic Meltdowns)

[MG 2.0]

I would invite others...even including the trolls coming out of the woodwork...to participate in this thread in a civil and productive manner. Gadiantion and I have posted back and forth...and I have had, at least what I believe to be, some thoughtful posts (from a believer's perspective) on the last few pages that might trigger some useful and provocative thoughts along with his.

Let's get things back on track. Gadianton deserves it. I deserve it. Take Limnor as a role model. Mostly civil most of the time...except for a few jabs now and then. That can be dealt with and expected.

Calling all trolls...can you engage thoughtfully and productively?

Stop the nonsense. Grow up. Attacking me for the sake of fulfilling your own needs to do so is not fair to other posters that come to the board to either learn something new or find something that causes them to do further research and thinking.

Be nice.

Thanks,
MG

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Calling all trolls...can you engage thoughtfully and productively?

Thanks,
MG (MOD NOTE: original content/names within quoted posts should remain unchanged. -c-)

Fibber,

Have you ever engaged thoughtfully and productively? Does anyone here trust or believe you? Anyone?

TAGT

[MG 2.0]

MG earlier:

I'm not holding up any hope that this will happen.

Boom.

If this thread gets back on track I will participate if I feel so inclined. Otherwise, trolls, have at it.

Sheesh.

[Rivendale]

In response/addition to my last post, isn't it obvious that there are those, even here, that would just as well create their own communities here and in the hereafter based upon certain principles of behavior/action/beliefs that are unique to them?

And yet, those that would condemn the LDS way of life in living the Gospel of Jesus Christ...and building covenant relationships with each other and with God....would like to destroy that community.

One might ask themselves...why?

Build your own community and thrive. Why not let the LDS community live and let live? I don't fully understand what your motivations are.

Regards,
MG

Mormonism teaches children demonstrably untrue versions of reality which contribute negatively to human flourishing. Mormonism has caused financial deception with regards to US laws and regulations that impact others. Mormonism has taken part in Amicus briefs that attempt to remove human rights from marginalized groups of people. Mormonism in the Mormon corridor runs the government that is indistinguishable from a theocracy which impacts non-believers and other religious groups. Mormonism protects abusers at the expense of the abused. If you haven't seen the documentary Wild Wild Country watch it and that will show you why some people can't leave it alone.

[Marcus]

<snip>

Why haven’t you used the quote function for Gadianton’s words?

It's also a comment from the AI thread. Mg has repeatedly been told not to bring anything from the AI thread to other threads. REPEATEDLY. He is trying to circumvent the AI rules by posting someone else's comment from that thread, without quotes. This violates Shades' ruling about the AI thread, YET AGAIN.

One wonders, YET AGAIN, how many chances to break this rule mentalgymnast will get.

[Marcus]

Posting these 'back and forth' posts on this thread so as to alleviate any concern that some may have that I have used AI in my responses.

Regards,
MG

One wonders if that is why mentalgymnast quoted a post from the AI thread, without quotation marks and without the normal quote link, and then referred to that AI thread post over here. Is it just another way to try to bypass the rule? Here's Shades latest explanation to him:

To clarify board rules. Is it OK or not OK to refer a poster over to the AI megathread?

[MODERATOR NOTE: NOT OK on any viewable thread. Only OK via private message.]

That is, of course, doing so without posting ANY actual content of the mega thread within any external thread/current thread.

[MODERATOR NOTE: Irrelevant. Refer via private message or do not refer at all. There is no third option.]

I want to make sure I follow the rules with exactness. I do think, for the sake of argument, that it ought to be OK to point someone over to that thread and do with it (the information provided) what they will.

[MODERATOR NOTE: It doesn't matter what you think ought or ought not to be.]

I say latest, because mg has violated this rule in multiple ways, which Shades has explained are violations, many times. Mentalgymnast wants to be taken seriously. Actually following the rules would be a good start for him.

[MG 2.0]

In response/addition to my last post, isn't it obvious that there are those, even here, that would just as well create their own communities here and in the hereafter based upon certain principles of behavior/action/beliefs that are unique to them?

And yet, those that would condemn the LDS way of life in living the Gospel of Jesus Christ...and building covenant relationships with each other and with God....would like to destroy that community.

One might ask themselves...why?

Build your own community and thrive. Why not let the LDS community live and let live? I don't fully understand what your motivations are.

Regards,
MG

Mormonism teaches children demonstrably untrue versions of reality which contribute negatively to human flourishing.

Would you agree that there are many many worldviews that various people have? Their own interpretations of reality? Including materialists? Including secularists? Would you say that the worldviews of materialists and secularists always lead to "human flourishing"?

Many many intelligent LDS members see the truth claims of the church as being reasonable and not deliberate falsehoods. Are you willing to "live and let live" those folks as they are weighed in the balance along with materialists and secularists? By the way, members of the church are going to look at a materialist and/or secularist and in most cases say, "Live and let live".

It doesn't seem to go both ways.

LDS teachings and social networks produce MANY psychologically healthy adults that are "flourishing" and happy living in the world and yet not "of the world" in certain respects. I think your statement is overdone, to say the least.

Mormonism has caused financial deception with regards to US laws and regulations that impact others.

I don't know that any active member of the church that is aware of the financial investments of the church that you are referring to is going to excuse any mistakes or misjudgments that occurred. Taking this as far as to then say, as you would, that this is just "another" evidence that the church is a fraud or that its leaders are intentionally "hoodwinking" members is a stretch, to say the least.

Mormonism has taken part in Amicus briefs that attempt to remove human rights from marginalized groups of people.

I don't have a problem with a religious organization exercising their right to speak out on moral issues. I may not always agree in every respect, but I still respect their right to do so. If that involves submitting Amicus briefs and also lobby against that which they (the leadership) disagree with on moral grounds, that's fine too.

I don't understand why you are so dead set against others having moral convictions different than yours?

Mormonism in the Mormon corridor runs the government that is indistinguishable from a theocracy which impacts non-believers and other religious groups.

That's hyperbole. Utah has elections. Utah has opposing parties. Utah has non LDS office holders in state and local government. Utah has constitutional restraints that inhibit any "theocracy" from exercising undo control. The fact that many legislators happen to have similar 'moral groundings' as the predominant religion...and other religions found in the state...is 'the way it is'. It just is. But that's not an indictment against the LDS Church.

Mormonism protects abusers at the expense of the abused. If you haven't seen the documentary Wild Wild Country watch it and that will show you why some people can't leave it alone.

There have been painful failures on the part of individuals...leaders and lay members...in where abusive situations have either been mishandled or ignored. As I said earlier, I don't think many active and intelligent Latter-day Saints are going to disagree. The fact is, there have been fairly recent policy changes and training that have played an important part in protecting victims and punishing the perpetrators. Will there still be some missteps and failures? Probably.

Humans sometimes to evil things. Even those that you would expect more of. Most local leaders try to do the right thing. I've noticed over time that more and more leaders (including those in our own ward) are sending people to therapists rather than trying to counsel them in areas that they have little or no expertise.

Critics, as they are prone to do, take this area of criticism and overblow it to the extent that they, again, are painting out the "church" to be a fraud and embarrassment, to say the least.

Rivendale, I am still responding and communicating with you because as of yet you have been mostly civil without resorting to constant ad hominem or false innuendo. I appreciate that. I hope that can continue. I notice there have been posters on my ignore list participating on this thread and jumping in (trolling) any time they see I am making comments from the 'believing perspective'. I will continue to let them have their way knowing that I will take some 'hits' even if unwarranted and untrue. The setting up of strawmen is especially prevalent.

It would be nice if others would point that out. But, alas, I don't expect that will happen.

Thanks for your response...even if most of what you said can easily be poked with holes. But that's the nature of free discussion, right? You have your say, and I have mine...and we don't go after each other with vitriol and hate.

I expect there will be one or two that are now going to jump in and yell, "Hypocrite!" Let them say what they will. It's not true. I know who I am...and it's not who they say/think I am.

Thanks for your post.

Regards,
MG