Benson blows Monson's Arthur Patton tale out of the water

[_Steve Benson]

From Brad Hudson:

"Steve, what does Patton's military record say?"

My response:

"Patton's military record (as manifest in crew-member manifests and transfer logs) show no cause, place or date of death. Comprehensive WW II casualty lists do not mention him as having been killed in action, died of wounds or missing due to operations in combat zones.

"This has been covered in my previous postings here, but I am happy to emphasize it again".

from Brad Hudson:

"Steve, why can't you give a straight forward answer to a straight forward question: Have you requested and reviewed Patton's entire service record? You know, from the navy?"

My current response:

Ahem. I have answered that question earlier in this posting series. I would urge you to go back read through it. I said I was in the process of trying to get hold of Patton's entire military service record, then noted the records that I have seen--including his enlistment card and his on-ship crew records for the U.S.S. White Plains (the latter which deal with his on-board presence or lack thereof, transfers and status. It was aboard the U.S.S. White Plains where Monson claimed Patton perished in combat, which he did not. It was on the U.S.S. White Plains where Patton was declared missing and, after which. the U.S. military has not indicated in official casualty lists Patton's ultimate fate).

[_Res Ipsa]

Sorry, I missed the "in the process of" part. When did you send in the form?

[_Shiloh]

Ahem. I have answered that question earlier in this posting series. I would urge you to go back read through it.

Hi Steve.

Welcome to 2014. In these parts, a "posting series" is known simply as a thread.

Also, If my memory serves, there are several questions posed in this "posting series" that you have not yet answered.

[_Quasimodo]

My current response:

Ahem. I have answered that question earlier in this posting series. I would urge you to go back read through it. I said I was in the process of trying to get hold of Patton's entire military service record, then noted the records that I have seen--including his enlistment card and his on-ship crew records for the U.S.S. White Plains (the latter which deal with his on-board presence or lack thereof, transfers and status. It was aboard the U.S.S. White Plains where Monson claimed Patton perished in combat, which he did not. It was on the U.S.S. White Plains where Patton was declared missing and, after which. the U.S. military has not indicated in official casualty lists Patton's ultimate fate).

I have been following this thread, but I haven't posted anything until now.

It seems the fate of Patton is a little fuzzy. You may not be able to discern this from the navy records, but was Patton listed as absent without leave (AWOL, staying in port when the ship sailed) or did they think he just fell off the ship (those things did and do happen)?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello Mr. Hudson,

Mr. Benson isn't going to provide any sort of documentation verifying he did what he insinuates what he did ref Mr. Patton's record.

The reason why he isn't going to do a FOIA request is because Mr. Benson simply data mined the Internets, pieced together his post (ad hoc, I might add), and now that he's getting a certain level of scrutiny here he's hoping to dissemble and repeat himself enough that we'll lose interest in his shoddy Internet-sleuthing.

This story has been around forever and a day, and Mr. Benson plagiarized his sources. It's that simple. I was hoping he'd provide references (!!), but that was too much to ask since it would have outed him and his technique of recycling material.

It's a shame. :/

That said, I think he has the ability to put something worthwhile together, but given his demonstrated lack of attention to detail, inability to research a topic well, and failure to understand his audience I'm not holding out hope.

Frankly, I believe Mr. Peterson would admit to being wrong on anything before Mr. Benson would admit to crafting a crappy piece stolen from various sources. That's a huge hit to his credibility, and it's unfortunate. Personally, I'd like to see him rebound from this debacle with something substantive, properly researched, and properly cited.

- Doc

[_Res Ipsa]

My current response:

Ahem. I have answered that question earlier in this posting series. I would urge you to go back read through it. I said I was in the process of trying to get hold of Patton's entire military service record, then noted the records that I have seen--including his enlistment card and his on-ship crew records for the U.S.S. White Plains (the latter which deal with his on-board presence or lack thereof, transfers and status. It was aboard the U.S.S. White Plains where Monson claimed Patton perished in combat, which he did not. It was on the U.S.S. White Plains where Patton was declared missing and, after which. the U.S. military has not indicated in official casualty lists Patton's ultimate fate).

I have been following this thread, but I haven't posted anything until now.

It seems the fate of Patton is a little fuzzy. You may not be able to discern this from the navy records, but was Patton listed as absent without leave (AWOL, staying in port when the ship sailed) or did they think he just fell off the ship (those things did and do happen)?

It's not clear from the ship's records, which just list him and another sailor as missing due to own misconduct. There is a blank for AWOL or Desertion, but the label on the form is crossed out and the notation is hand-written in. Nothing in the ship's records ever list him or the other sailor as dead. So, yeah, fuzzy.

[_Steve Benson]

Does anyone happen to know if Steve Benson has acknowledged that in 2011, members of this message board researched and debunked Thomas S. Monson's Arthur Patton story?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20563

Or would that somewhat lessen the impact of this Stunning Revelation By Steve Benson That All You Mormons Are In Denial Over?

No, I'm sure Steve Benson is not the mirror image of Daniel Peterson, including the accompanying cult of personality. So of course Steve Benson has credited Mormon Discussions member Just Me with the research she already did into this.

OI have mentioned "Just Me"

Within the last week, I was informed by another source of a particular post by "Just Me" from 2011's "Mormon Discussions" that I was not aware of. I considered it to be quite significant and well reasoned; noted its posting date and citations; and will be quoting from it with open and deserved attribution when I compile my final conclusions in posting form (a project that I have been working on for some time now). To be sure, I would not use "Just Me's" research without giving credit where credit is due. There are other sources that I will be quoting and citing, as well. I think it has been demonstrated here that I regard proper attribution as important and necessary. This is, after all, a team effort. "Just Me's" turn for deserved recognition is coming and I ain't t blowin' smoke on that.

[_Res Ipsa]

Hello Mr. Hudson,

Mr. Benson isn't going to provide any sort of documentation verifying he did what he insinuates what he did ref Mr. Patton's record.

The reason why he isn't going to do a FOIA request is because Mr. Benson simply data mined the Internets, pieced together his post (ad hoc, I might add), and now that he's getting a certain level of scrutiny here he's hoping to dissemble and repeat himself enough that we'll lose interest in his shoddy Internet-sleuthing.

This story has been around forever and a day, and Mr. Benson plagiarized his sources. It's that simple. I was hoping he'd provide references (!!), but that was too much to ask since it would have outed him and his technique of recycling material.

It's a shame. :/

That said, I think he has the ability to put something worthwhile together, but given his demonstrated lack of attention to detail, inability to research a topic well, and failure to understand his audience I'm not holding out hope.

Frankly, I believe Mr. Peterson would admit to being wrong on anything before Mr. Benson would admit to crafting a crappy piece stolen from various sources. That's a huge hit to his credibility, and it's unfortunate. Personally, I'd like to see him rebound from this debacle with something substantive, properly researched, and properly cited.

- Doc

Thanks, Doc. If we're going to get a quality finished product on this topic, my money's on just me.

[_Kishkumen]

Does anyone happen to know if Steve Benson has acknowledged that in 2011, members of this message board researched and debunked Thomas S. Monson's Arthur Patton story?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20563

Or would that somewhat lessen the impact of this Stunning Revelation By Steve Benson That All You Mormons Are In Denial Over?

No, I'm sure Steve Benson is not the mirror image of Daniel Peterson, including the accompanying cult of personality. So of course Steve Benson has credited Mormon Discussions member Just Me with the research she already did into this.

Was "jon" really Steve Benson?

[_Quasimodo]

It's not clear from the ship's records, which just list him and another sailor as missing due to own misconduct. There is a blank for AWOL or Desertion, but the label on the form is crossed out and the notation is hand-written in. Nothing in the ship's records ever list him or the other sailor as dead. So, yeah, fuzzy.

It sounds like a "Man Overboard" if he was missing days after leaving port. If he was on night watch when he fell over, no one would notice until the next roll call. They probably wouldn't even bother to turn the ship around in a war setting.

It seems kind of odd that no other explanation was given. Although, those were wild and crazy times.

Do you know if his ship was in combat just prior to his being missed?