Jacob Hansen: Yesser No?

[PseudoPaul]

When you demonstrate what Jesus taught like that, if Mormonism was a restoration of what Jesus taught then Mormons should be single, virgins, and have left their family to live a life of celibacy and poverty.

Yup, that was pretty much the whole program.

[huckelberry]

When you demonstrate what Jesus taught like that, if Mormonism was a restoration of what Jesus taught then Mormons should be single, virgins, and have left their family to live a life of celibacy and poverty.

Yup, that was pretty much the whole program.

Pseudopaul,

To my reading, those things were suggested for a few people, not everybody. That was the mainline understanding in the following centuries when some people felt called to monastic living while most Christians married had children and productive employment.

That idea continues to this day. For respite from daily living and to have a time for contemplation and prayer, one can visit a monastery and stay a few days. One may also chose to follow that life.

[sock puppet]

Yup, that was pretty much the whole program.

Pseudopaul,

To my reading, those things were suggested for a few people, not everybody. That was the mainline understanding in the following centuries when some people felt called to monastic living while most Christians married had children and productive employment.

That idea continues to this day. For respite from daily living and to have a time for contemplation and prayer, one can visit a monastery and stay a few days. One may also chose to follow that life.

Do the 10 Commandments only apply to those Moses brought them down the mountain and showed?

[huckelberry]

Pseudopaul,

To my reading, those things were suggested for a few people, not everybody. That was the mainline understanding in the following centuries when some people felt called to monastic living while most Christians married had children and productive employment.

That idea continues to this day. For respite from daily living and to have a time for contemplation and prayer, one can visit a monastery and stay a few days. One may also chose to follow that life.

Do the 10 Commandments only apply to those Moses brought them down the mountain and showed?

I do not see reason to think Jesus told everybody to be celibate, etc. Some saying seem to have a very short time in view fitting give up all possessions and be celibate. Other statements seem to have a longer view. A community that is all celibate without possessions lasts only a short time.

[sock puppet]

Do the 10 Commandments only apply to those Moses brought them down the mountain and showed?

I do not see reason to think Jesus told everybody to be celibate, etc. Some saying seem to have a very short time in view fitting give up all possessions and be celibate. Other statements seem to have a longer view. A community that is all celibate without possessions lasts only a short time.

Is there reason to think that the Lord intended the 10 Commandments beyond those that followed Moses out of Egypt?

[huckelberry]

I do not see reason to think Jesus told everybody to be celibate, etc. Some saying seem to have a very short time in view fitting give up all possessions and be celibate. Other statements seem to have a longer view. A community that is all celibate without possessions lasts only a short time.

Is there reason to think that the Lord intended the 10 Commandments beyond those that followed Moses out of Egypt?

Well they are for the most part good rules. Most Christians have altered the Sabbath rule. The Sabbath is supposed to be Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. That might not be what you are thinking of.

Sock puppet, you might be thinking on a path I am missing because I am not understanding what you are asking. I believe Jesus referenced the ten commandments but liked the love God and love your neighbor summary. I believe those were the goals for most people that Jesus spoke of.

[sock puppet]

Is there reason to think that the Lord intended the 10 Commandments beyond those that followed Moses out of Egypt?

Well they are for the most part good rules. Most Christians have altered the Sabbath rule. The Sabbath is supposed to be Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. That might not be what you are thinking of.

Sock puppet, you might be thinking on a path I am missing because I am not understanding what you are asking. I believe Jesus referenced the ten commandments but liked the love God and love your neighbor summary. I believe those were the goals for most people that Jesus spoke of.

I am trying to see the authority for extending some rules more broadly than the direct listeners, while circumscribing others just to those privy to the words when spoken by Jesus.

[huckelberry]

Well they are for the most part good rules. Most Christians have altered the Sabbath rule. The Sabbath is supposed to be Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. That might not be what you are thinking of.

Sock puppet, you might be thinking on a path I am missing because I am not understanding what you are asking. I believe Jesus referenced the ten commandments but liked the love God and love your neighbor summary. I believe those were the goals for most people that Jesus spoke of.

I am trying to see the authority for extending some rules more broadly than the direct listeners, while circumscribing others just to those privy to the words when spoken by Jesus.

Puppet,

I do not see rules being involved here. I thought rules were agreements people made in order to work together like what side of the street to drive on. Mormons have a habit of speaking of rules existing for everything. I do not see Jesus as thinking in those terms. Glutton and winebibber might have been exaggerations but would not be applied to a person demanding asceticism.

I see Jesus pointing to goals for how people live together, not making rules. Poverty and chastity were invitations to participate in prophetic call to people to leave selfish geed. To think of it as a rule makes it sound like a negotiation for personal advantage (the rule is to get B you must do A and you are asking who has authority to change that).

[bill4long]

Is there any sort of correlation between LDS-church-haters and LGBTQXYZ+ ?

Asking for a friend

(P.S. I have no dog in the fight)

[sock puppet]

I am trying to see the authority for extending some rules more broadly than the direct listeners, while circumscribing others just to those privy to the words when spoken by Jesus.

Puppet,

I do not see rules being involved here. I thought rules were agreements people made in order to work together like what side of the street to drive on. Mormons have a habit of speaking of rules existing for everything. I do not see Jesus as thinking in those terms. Glutton and winebibber might have been exaggerations but would not be applied to a person demanding asceticism.

I see Jesus pointing to goals for how people live together, not making rules. Poverty and chastity were invitations to participate in prophetic call to people to leave selfish geed. To think of it as a rule makes it sound like a negotiation for personal advantage (the rule is to get B you must do A and you are asking who has authority to change that).

Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations.
Deuteronomy 7:9

I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Genesis 9:13

And the Lord, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.
Deuteronomy 31:8

But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him,
and his righteousness unto children's children; To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.
Psalm 103:17-18

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 9:15

Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine.
Exodus 19:5

For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.
Isaiah 54:10

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Hebrews 13:20-21

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Hebrews 8:6

Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Luke 22:20

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deuteronomy 4:13

I made a covenant with mine eyes;
why then should I think upon a maid?
Job 31:1

And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
Genesis 9:11

And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Exodus 34:28

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Matthew 26:27-28