Family dies holding hands, praying

[_Yoda]

Yes. And worth more than men too. I'm very ageist that way.

Thus the product is more worthy than the materials... without which the product could not be produced.

I don't agree. I don't think children are more valuable than adults. I don't think adults are more valuable than children. I don't think the elderly are more valuable than those that are younger or vice versa.

I'm very non-ageist that way. (but then, I have birthed and raised 8 children who are now no longer children but adults. What could I possibly know about anything?)

As a dad who is raising one child, I'll counter that in my experience, most adults are worthless wankers. Kids are awesome.

As a parent of two girls, ages 20 and 23, and one boy, age 8, I have to concur with Harmony that BOTH children and ADULT CHILDREN can be pretty awesome!

Something for you to look forward to, Buffalo!

[_Yoda]

I don't really see why tornadoes need to exist in the first place.

Me neither. I don't think anyone does.

What good in the scheme of nature, do they cause?

I have no idea. Apparently, the consensus is nothing.

And, yes, why couldn't the tornado simply land in an unoccupied territory?

It could. But what about the next one? Does this go for all tornadoes?

Why not?

My point is that I'm not sure we are prepared to have God intervene in this way because there is always another circumstance that we would wish for such intervention. It's a long road to decide these things.

But isn't that what the word of God teaches us? That if we pray, are faithful, and do his will, that he WILL intervene?

[_Hoops]

Why can't there be no tornadoes?

I don't know. I don't know if tornadoes are useful in some way or not. They don't seem to have any benefit.

I am not sure where you are going with this really.

I'm going beyond the superficial criticism of "God, why do tragedies have to happen."

So maybe if I say no tornadoes then how about no earthquakes, no hurricanes, no any natural disasters.

Okay. Let's say that. Assuming that none of these things have some other benefit (though we know they do, forest fires for instance)

As I noted this is what God intended, right?

No, it's not. God intended that man live in complete communion with him as exampled in the garden.

Why then did he let two humans thwart His original plan?

It was a test. We failed.

More on this in response to the next post I made that you responded too

Please do.

[_Buffalo]

[

As a dad who is raising one child, I'll counter that in my experience, most adults are worthless wankers. Kids are awesome.

As a parent of two girls, ages 20 and 23, and one boy, age 8, I have to concur with Harmony that BOTH children and ADULT CHILDREN can be pretty awesome!

Something for you to look forward to, Buffalo!

Well, of course, MY children will be awesome adults. Not like those other adults who are total tosspots.

[_Buffalo]

Why then did he let two humans thwart His original plan?

It was a test. We failed.

We failed? I wasn't there. Were you?

[_Jason Bourne]

I want the paradise God started with. You know, before Adam and Eve sinned and were given the boot, and the fall came about.

Me to.

Great we agree

Wasn't the world supposed to be perfect then, and free from tornadoes, earthquakes, death and evil?

Yes.

Then I guess I am at a loss as to why you think God sending tornadoes or other catastrophes in directions so as not to kill his creations is problematic.

I wonder why God just didn't punish Adam and Eve and start with a couple of new humans.

Interesting. But that might mean there would be no Jason Bourne. Are you sure that's what you want?

Well I guess if the only way I could be here is too be a descendent of the first Adam and Eve then selfishly I might have some concern about that. But if God in his omniscience knew I would exist why couldn't I exist as a descendent of Jonathan and Jill who were Adam and Eve's replacement?

Why did the billions of us who came after have to suffer because our first parents screwed up? How just is that?]

The justice is in the remedy.

II understand mercy and justice are provided if one accepts the gift that comes from Christ's atonement. Still that sure leaves a lot of God's creations out and a lot of mess, sin, hurt and horrific suffering along the way. I just wonder why God could not have started it all again so His original plan was still in place. Seems like a tough way to get the plan back to where he intended. And did he know it was going to be this way all along?

[_Hoops]

Then I guess I am at a loss as to why you think God sending tornadoes or other catastrophes in directions so as not to kill his creations is problematic.

Well, I've explained it several times now.

Well I guess if the only way I could be here is too be a descendent of the first Adam and Eve then selfishly I might have some concern about that. But if God in his omniscience knew I would exist why couldn't I exist as a descendent of Jonathan and Jill who were Adam and Eve's replacement?

You might still, and you might not. But what you're asking for is an entirely new and different existence. I wonder what the consequences would be.

II understand mercy and justice are provided if one accepts the gift that comes from Christ's atonement.

I realize a lot folks phrase it this way, but it's not quite right, in my opinion. For another thread, I'd imagine.

Still that sure leaves a lot of God's creations out and a lot of mess, sin, hurt and horrific suffering along the way.

I'm not so sure. And I'm not sure how you can be so sure. What we DO know is that Jesus is the mechanism by which people are saved.

I just wonder why God could not have started it all again so His original plan was still in place.

Again, that would mean another kind of existence that might not have given us all the wonderful things of this one.

Seems like a tough way to get the plan back to where he intended. And did he know it was going to be this way all along?

Well, He is God... so I would suspect so.

[_harmony]

Well, of course, MY children will be awesome adults. Not like those other adults who are total tosspots.

Nope. They'll be just like all other adults: they'll not be children. Thus, according to you, they'll be worthless.

[_Jason Bourne]

Why then did he let two humans thwart His original plan?

It was a test. We failed.

No WE did not fail. I didn't. You didn't. Adam and Eve did.

[_Hoops]

No WE did not fail. I didn't. You didn't. Adam and Eve did.

Maybe you can reference someone who has not failed?