Charlie Kirk shot at UVU in Orem

[Whiskey]

So let’s hear it. Break out the leaderboard. Give us the stats. If “game” is the measure, then your contribution here is pure Hall of Fame material.

Oh, there's a leaderboard indeed. Neither of us are on it. Neither is Hound to be found. The leaders of this game leave it to the junior league to kick balls around while they smile bemusedly on the sidelines. They throw in a comment here or there, or maybe they stay silent. They don't see a real challenger here, just kids learning the ropes.

Well, that is a relief. A few words into your response and I was expecting to find out we are in the Squid Game.

[Kishkumen]

Well, that is a relief. A few words into your response and I was expecting to find out we are in the Squid Game.

Yikes!

[ajax18]

Thank you, Whiskey.

I can't take this place - need a break.

Out!

It really is the abyss. I know I shouldn't be here. And yet I come back thinking that some fact or piece of evidence must surely change a few minds. It never does and it never ceases to surprise me that it doesn't. The clay that was once soft and impressionable is set and hardened as if by fire.

[Gadianton]

And yet I come back thinking that some fact

As if you've ever tried presenting a fact...

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Thank you, Whiskey.

I can't take this place - need a break.

Out!

It really is the abyss. I know I shouldn't be here. And yet I come back thinking that some fact or piece of evidence must surely change a few minds. It never does and it never ceases to surprise me that it doesn't. The clay that was once soft and impressionable is set and hardened as if by fire.

What a shock, the shameless Nazi has managed to warp reality into the very thing he was going to believe anyhow. - Molok

[Doctor Steuss]

It really is the abyss. I know I shouldn't be here. And yet I come back thinking that some fact or piece of evidence must surely change a few minds. It never does and it never ceases to surprise me that it doesn't. The clay that was once soft and impressionable is set and hardened as if by fire.

I know that I am often incredibly uncharitable in the ways that I respond to you, and allow my emotions to regularly silence my better angels, but I do sincerely appreciate that you participate here.

It helps me reexamine my own beliefs regularly, which as I get older, the static of the world gets noisier, and the algorithms try to force feed me a curated worldview to maximize engagement and revenue... I need. A lot.

Naturally, I hope that I can sway you to align your views and the way you interact with the world more alongside mine, but I'm sure that's what we're all doing to some degree. It'd be kind of bonkers if I held an opinion, but didn't think anyone else should have that same opinion. I think you're wrong about a lot of stuff, and I'm certain you feel the same way about me; and, hopefully at the end of the day we'll both end up picking up the best pieces of each other and walk away better for it.

------------------------------------------

On another note (as to not make a new post), I went on a four-hour deep dive on everything that's currently available about the shooter. I'm not convinced he's simply a "Groyper," and I'm also definitely not convinced he was a leftist. It seems to me he didn't really have a set political ideology that can be placed neatly into our current tribal makeup. He held views that tend to be commonly held amongst left-leaning people, and he also held views that tend to be commonly held amongst right-leaning people. He mostly seems to be a cautionary tale of allowing the more toxic aspects of online interactions, memes, and sh*t-posting become a replacement for reality.

Maybe the trial will give a better picture. Maybe it will end up making everything even more confusing, and rob us of a nice bow of "so that was his black-and-white motive" that we generally crave in these moments. It still haunts me that there was no clear motive for the massacre that happened here in Vegas. Maybe that's a sign of a healthy society though, when we can't figure out why someone did something horrendous.

There's a Krishnamurti quote that I often think of in moments like this:

"It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Anyway, just some pre-coffee, post pain meds musings of the morning.

[Res Ipsa]

It really is the abyss. I know I shouldn't be here. And yet I come back thinking that some fact or piece of evidence must surely change a few minds. It never does and it never ceases to surprise me that it doesn't. The clay that was once soft and impressionable is set and hardened as if by fire.

I know that I am often incredibly uncharitable in the ways that I respond to you, and allow my emotions to regularly silence my better angels, but I do sincerely appreciate that you participate here.

It helps me reexamine my own beliefs regularly, which as I get older, the static of the world gets noisier, and the algorithms try to force feed me a curated worldview to maximize engagement and revenue... I need. A lot.

Naturally, I hope that I can sway you to align your views and the way you interact with the world more alongside mine, but I'm sure that's what we're all doing to some degree. It'd be kind of bonkers if I held an opinion, but didn't think anyone else should have that same opinion. I think you're wrong about a lot of stuff, and I'm certain you feel the same way about me; and, hopefully at the end of the day we'll both end up picking up the best pieces of each other and walk away better for it.

------------------------------------------

On another note (as to not make a new post), I went on a four-hour deep dive on everything that's currently available about the shooter. I'm not convinced he's simply a "Groyper," and I'm also definitely not convinced he was a leftist. It seems to me he didn't really have a set political ideology that can be placed neatly into our current tribal makeup. He held views that tend to be commonly held amongst left-leaning people, and he also held views that tend to be commonly held amongst right-leaning people. He mostly seems to be a cautionary tale of allowing the more toxic aspects of online interactions, memes, and sh*t-posting become a replacement for reality.

Maybe the trial will give a better picture. Maybe it will end up making everything even more confusing, and rob us of a nice bow of "so that was his black-and-white motive" that we generally crave in these moments. It still haunts me that there was no clear motive for the massacre that happened here in Vegas. Maybe that's a sign of a healthy society though, when we can't figure out why someone did something horrendous.

There's a Krishnamurti quote that I often think of in moments like this:

"It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Anyway, just some pre-coffee, post pain meds musings of the morning.

Wise words, Dr. Steuss. Everyone is in a rush to shove him into one or the other of a set of binary boxes, despite the fact that people just aren't like that. The rush to shove Tyler in a box and then demonize everyone else in that box is sick and disgusting. Our brains want causation to be simple, like a set of dominoes. But that's not how causation works. It's a tangled mess of both predictable and contingent events. And that's particularly true of human brains. The harm of this rush to black or white judgment is obvious: it keeps us from finding what it is that leads seemingly ordinary, good people to kill their fellow humans.

In a sane world, a tragedy like this would cause humble introspection into how a good Mormon kid from southern Utah decided that murder was justified. This insane game of pin the tail on my political enemy that people are playing is, in my opinion, an example of just how crazy our world has become.

[ajax18]

I know that I am often incredibly uncharitable in the ways that I respond to you, and allow my emotions to regularly silence my better angels, but I do sincerely appreciate that you participate here.

It helps me reexamine my own beliefs regularly, which as I get older, the static of the world gets noisier, and the algorithms try to force feed me a curated worldview to maximize engagement and revenue... I need. A lot.

Naturally, I hope that I can sway you to align your views and the way you interact with the world more alongside mine, but I'm sure that's what we're all doing to some degree. It'd be kind of bonkers if I held an opinion, but didn't think anyone else should have that same opinion. I think you're wrong about a lot of stuff, and I'm certain you feel the same way about me; and, hopefully at the end of the day we'll both end up picking up the best pieces of each other and walk away better for it.

I don't consider you part of the Satanic abyss that is this board. Part of why Charlie Kirk was so effective in his debates was the fact that he never saw any of the people who hated him so much as bad people but rather just people who had been beguiled by Satan with half truths.

I first came here decades ago when religion looked to me like a big scam where powerful men would take advantage of my time and my labor. After my mission I stayed away because I never wanted to allow the Church to get close enough to me to hurt me the way it had again. I decided around 6 years ago to go back to Church for real, even if only to just listen and understand what they were saying, even though I believed I wouldn't agree with most of it. In that process all my hangups and deal breakers with Church didn't seem important anymore. I rediscovered that I really had a Heavenly Father who loved me and wanted what was best for me. Instead of questioning Him with things like if you love me than why did you let this happen, I started to realize that I didn't have the advantage of God's all encompassing perspective, nor the right to question Him. I decided that I would never again let my conclusion that God loves us change no matter what the evidence says in this world. Nor would I ever doubt Him or be disloyal because something didn't seem to add up for me at the moment. And I started to understand that this is what it means to live by faith in something that I know is true but can't always demonstrate exactly how. And it may not have even happened had I not moved into a ward with brilliant and successful, but also faithful believing people who actually did want nothing but to help build me up spiritually.

These things we're arguing about really aren't that important and it only fuels feelings of skepticism and discord. Regardless of what the truth ends up being, it's a waste of precious time. If you really are to walk away from our interaction any better than before, this is the kind of thing we should be talking about, not politics.

[Chap]

Please could you learn to use the "quote" function in a way that indicates who you are quoting? It really would help your readers!

I know that I am often incredibly uncharitable in the ways that I respond to you, and allow my emotions to regularly silence my better angels, but I do sincerely appreciate that you participate here.

It helps me reexamine my own beliefs regularly, which as I get older, the static of the world gets noisier, and the algorithms try to force feed me a curated worldview to maximize engagement and revenue... I need. A lot.

Naturally, I hope that I can sway you to align your views and the way you interact with the world more alongside mine, but I'm sure that's what we're all doing to some degree. It'd be kind of bonkers if I held an opinion, but didn't think anyone else should have that same opinion. I think you're wrong about a lot of stuff, and I'm certain you feel the same way about me; and, hopefully at the end of the day we'll both end up picking up the best pieces of each other and walk away better for it.

I don't consider you part of the Satanic abyss that is this board. Part of why Charlie Kirk was so effective in his debates was the fact that he never saw any of the people who hated him so much as bad people but rather just people who had been beguiled by Satan with half truths.

I first came here decades ago when religion looked to me like a big scam where powerful men would take advantage of my time and my labor. After my mission I stayed away because I never wanted to allow the Church to get close enough to me to hurt me the way it had again. I decided around 6 years ago to go back to Church for real, even if only to just listen and understand what they were saying, even though I believed I wouldn't agree with most of it. In that process all my hangups and deal breakers with Church didn't seem important anymore. I rediscovered that I really had a Heavenly Father who loved me and wanted what was best for me. Instead of questioning Him with things like if you love me than why did you let this happen, I started to realize that I didn't have the advantage of God's all encompassing perspective, nor the right to question Him. I decided that I would never again let my conclusion that God loves us change no matter what the evidence says in this world. Nor would I ever doubt Him or be disloyal because something didn't seem to add up for me at the moment. And I started to understand that this is what it means to live by faith in something that I know is true but can't always demonstrate exactly how. And it may not have even happened had I not moved into a ward with brilliant and successful, but also faithful believing people who actually did want nothing but to help build me up spiritually.

These things we're arguing about really aren't that important and it only fuels feelings of skepticism and discord. Regardless of what the truth ends up being, it's a waste of precious time. If you really are to walk away from our interaction any better than before, this is the kind of thing we should be talking about, not politics.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

but I know you are full of crap because clearly it is not only "leftists" who hated Charlie Kirk enough to kill him.

How many white supremacist have been assasinating people lately. I've seen three militant transgender homosexuals (although the media attempted to hide their ideology and manifestos for years). I've seen militant black people killing white people for no discernible reason other than the color of their skin or DeCarlos's baseless claim that Irina used the "N word," hence he was justified in retaliating violently (a leftist doctrine). And I've seen radical Islamic terrorists killing any Jew they might run into all around the world while chanting Mamdami's slogan, "Globalize the intifada." These are all factions of the Democrat party, each with specific justifications and permission structures for the lies they tell and the murders they commit.

Look at what Nick's actual statement after Charlie Kirk was assasinated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTkulVJyVe4

Show me where the Groyper's have killed any mainstream conservatives. Admittedly I don't know much about Nick because it was only recently that I've seen people quoting him on youtube. He's been nearly censored out of existence. I appreciate his unapologetic statements on rights being tied to responsibilities. i.e. if you don't work and are a net tax payer, you shouldn't be voting. That's just common sense and yet people like myself who have come to this conclusion are labeled as extremists for it. I can't even say it out loud in real life without fear of violent retaliation. But Nick isn't afraid to say it. But I'll never understand the far right's hatred of the Jews. It makes no sense to me. Nick isn't even a Trump supporter anymore.

Yet another militant transgender is busted for child porn?



- Doc